Concerns were raised in the Alchemist thread regarding how effective the title would be in reducing the barriers to entry for remote viewing and astral projection. A number of posters believed that the hype surrounding the product was clouding people’s judgment and expectations.
I personally believe otherwise, but we are open to seeing what the community thinks. Place your thoughts here.
Some valid points were brought up on both sides, lets just wait and see what results users get when the product is released !
Having high expectations often bind you to the outcome of your desired goal. This held down your magick and manifestation.
It is better to approach things without expectation and just take what happens. From purely a practical reason.
This is why I was on with void. It is not just “my” thing. Most magick and LOA practitioners know that. Expect too much, and you obfuscate the pathway to manifestation. In my opinion the best approach to any goal is a calm and unfazed mindset. Results will speak for themselves.
Another point that void raised is that Hype just only end up damaging both the publisher and the community. That’s why nowadays subliminal publishers tone down the hype themselves.
I wonder if there is much to say about it. The discussion would have died by itself back in the other thread if it was seen for what it is… Just a discussion, and handled properly.
Expectations don’t have to be limiting by any means in my opinion. I have learned to view expectations as a sort of intention for what I’m going for. And I’d like to have my horizons widened as much as possible in that respect before I start.
Attachment to those expectations is, however, a completely different thing and I agree on that that it can be detrimental. You can have expectations and not be attached to them at the same time, but view them merely as guideposts for what might be possible.
By the way, I don’t think any one can have no expectations at all. And “realistic” expectations don’t make sense at all to me.
“Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you’ll land among the stars.”
@Sebastian_Po, master of the punctuation.
China has some great energetic philosophers and practitioners. When I was at the dentist a couple of days ago I tried to do the trick where they can use their mind to turn off the pain receptors (there’s those stories of people without anesthesia being totally awake during surgery). I eventually found that the key was to move the attention and energy away to either the heart or dantien. Moving it outside of my body like some monks are taught was too hard. Unfortunately, the pain kept causing my attention to go back to my mouth. Plus it annoyed the poor girl, since every time I was successful, my jaw relaxed and started closing.
There’s a DVD set of a seminar given by Dr Yang Jwing-Ming about QiGong. The amazing thing about it is that he approaches the topic through the eyes of western science. So he speaks of energy like bio-electricity, conducted through the body by fascia. The aura is an electromagnetic field. And so on. It is a very good way to open up westerners to energy-work if they can explain it to themselves rationally.
What was a properly handled discussion to you looked like an elitist group of people each trying to get the last word in to me. I did not see it dying. In fact, I was leaning back in my gaming chair with a movie on one half of my screen and the Alchemist thread on the other half, popcorn in my hand, waiting for the inevitable mushroom cloud on both halves of the screen. Positively giddy Saint didn’t make me moderator.
All the while blackadder was the kid with his telescope watching the stars wondering about what was out there while his parents kept telling him to store the telescope in the attic and do something realistic and practical with his life, since there was nothing out there.
I can imagine what it would have looked like to Saint and Fire with a bunch of guys telling them all the things the product of their hard work, dedication and imagination was NOT going to be able to do before even trying it. That kind of thing hurts, you know?
All it would have taken was a few differently phrased sentences here and there to express your opinions without shooting down other people. Words have power. Since you’re on a subliminal forum, you should know that very well.
Don’t you love the spoiler box? Thank you ExploringAstronaut for showing me it existed.
@Soar
Not a lot of stars between here and the moon. I was taught it a bit differently as part of my goal-setting exercises.
Shoot for the stars. Even if you land on the moon, you’re going in the right direction.
I now use it for my migration-goal whenever somebody asks.
I’m shooting for Canada. If I end up in Ireland, I’d be content.
I have a completely different approach at things. I like to approach things with the least possible expectation on how why and when things will happen. I consider the journey as a discovery journey and I am open to surprises. And this greatly helps with the notion of letting go and not lusting for results. So it’s a win-win for me.
What you can call expectation in my case, is the sense of progress. I expect at least to progress toward the end goal within a reasonable timeframe. But it’s not always the case. Sometimes I found that it is best to even forget the goal altogether.
Yes, but how do you apply that practically? Depending on how this can lead to bad planning.
I have an incremental approach at things, and like I said above, I rather watch for progress than for the end goal.
I rarely shoot for the moon. I shoot for the next milestone that’s slightly out of reach in my current reality. If I have a passive income of $500 a month and my goal is to gain more, I won’t ask the universe to turn that into $50k. I’ll ask for $750, then $1000, and so on.
And I completely differentiate expectation from intent. You can set the intent to earn $2k a month but not expecting that at all.
The way I see expectation is forcing and entangling the natural flow of things.
Now about the Alchemist thread my call wasn’t even about having “realistic expectations” (I never said such things), but rather about the hype.
The mincing of words around here is exceptional. blackadder like many others (here and on other forums) are day dreamers without experience in meditation and without deep study of these occult topics. They mostly discuss fantasy, because they don’t know anything else. And this isn’t even about what’s possible and what’s not, it’s mainly about a certain level of dedication that one needs to adhere to in order to reach such lofty goals.
@DarkPhilosopher Your little example is laughable. Astral travel is possible, but fantasy about creating future timelines or changing the past while in the astral should have no part in these discussions. Now, you can encourage these kids to believe whatever they want to believe, but the problem with that is that eventually they’ll blame you and the product for the lack of results. They’ll come back to you and ask you… why isn’t this working? You said it was going to work! What am I doing wrong? And what are you going tell them? To practice more?
So all of you can sit in your gaming chairs and discuss semantics with Orion, but at the end of the day how many of you have actually worked with astral travel and know what’s involved? What results have you gained so far? What experience do you have in relation to these topics?
People really like to dramatize everything in this forum.
This is a rather bad analogy. I invite you to read my comments there on that thread once more and especially those you assume are “shooting down people”. I certainly didn’t tell blackbadder to “store his telescope”, I wasn’t even referring to him at all. My comments could be summed up as:
While I approve @void’s call, do not mix my comments with his.
About that, honestly, that’s something I was going to say on the Alchemy Thread. Really technical questions were thrown out at @DarkPhilosopher but he himself is not an expert or a fervent practitioners. I was going to say: “Shouldn’t we let people that actually know their things answer those questions?”, and that’s where I agree with @void that this leads to unecessary hype, and at the end both party are likely to be damaged.
That’s one of the main problems with this discussion. It could of ended with a swift conclusion, but things had to be dramatized and words had to be minced and exaggerated in order to point out that this soft society is getting even softer. Constructive criticism these days is almost always taken as a negative perspective.
In any case, Orion can sit here and debate these topics with you guys for as long as he pleases, however I’m going to end my contribution to this right here because it doesn’t seem like it’s going anywhere.
Alchemy=knowledge of transmutation
noun
“the transmutation of the political economy of the post-war years was complete”
the changing of one element into another by radioactive decay, nuclear bombardment, or similar processes.
the conversion or transformation of one species into another.
BELIEVE OR NOT
HYPE OR SCEPTIC
DONT MATTER
Alchemy is what we do here already. Just check older forum jurnals. All improvements , changes open more paths we had before. And subliminals are doing it fast.
This is my feeling as well. Apparently it’s impossible to constructively discuss. Everything has to be taken personally somehow. We have been accusing of “holding back SubClub” like we woke up today with the intent of plotting against Saint or Fire. Than later I got accused of personal attack, seemingly just because the man in power here doesn’t agree with me.
I disagree @DarkPhilosopher, things could be handled much better. The first step is to read words for what there are instead of extrapolating and dramatizing.
I’d like to add just one thing to that. I like that attitude as well and it is also my intention to have that and I can do it within my definition of expectations. There is, however, one caveat. I think we already have beliefs about everything, most of them subconscious one might even say. So it’s not really that we can be completely open to anything and let just all the surprises come. Many times I have been doing something new only later to discover that I’ve been unintentionally limiting myself the whole time, because I just didn’t know what could have been truly possible for me. I thought I was open to anything already. That’s why I have nothing against “high expectations”. If I am not attached to them, then so what if I miss the mark? And I can also be open to anything.
Thanks for the discussion. My goal was to only present my view, because I thought it might add to the general argument. If we have different approaches to things and they work for us, then everything’s cool. I am not here to convince anyone. I think it is also unnecessary to curb anyone’s enthusiasm to anything. Who are we to say what is possible or not?
I don’t think I’ve ever claimed to be an expert guys. In most cases I’ve either said I didn’t know, I’ve referred to what I read in books about the topic or I’ve tried to stay away from the topic. Then again, neither of you have given me the confidence that you are experts either. Just claiming to be isn’t enough.
In my comments, I do my best never to close doors for people. It’s a known fact that children that are encouraged to dream grow up far better than children that are constantly told what they can’t and shouldn’t do. Same goes for adults. If someone wants to think big, I support them where I can. I’ll share my beliefs, but I won’t close the doors on them.
If either of you can offer anything constructive that will help me give better advice, please do. I, at least, am open to learn.
Gentlemen —
This thread was made to discuss the topic you kept bringing up in a thread that wasn’t relevant, and a few of you have proceeded to derail this one with personal attacks that are thinly veiled as “critiques.”
As @DarkPhilosopher said, the discussion in the other thread was coming across as highly elitist — not just by me, but @Fire and a number of members who complained about it.
I’ve seen the other “self-development” forums out there and the kind of stuff people are allowed to post — mindless bashing of others, outright lies and more. On THIS forum, you will act with decorum and speak to others with respect or you will not be allowed to participate.
As a “child” myself in many disciplines, I’d rather be given the right information, may they be unpleasant to the ear. Once again it wasn’t a matter of dogma or closing the door or “putting down people” but a good call that hype CAN be dangerous. But I guess you choose to see what you want to see.
End of the discussion for me.
To reiterate what @SaintSovereign said - we’re not going to support gatekeeping behavior or elitism. SC was not built on “keeping human potential the same”, it was built on “advancing human potential”. We are well aware of the need for practicing these skills - that is why there isn’t only rvX or apX, but a full 4 stage program that will help one develop themselves in any way they desire spiritually, and especially their general spiritual base. This also means the most common problems such as letting go of the lust for results.
Moreover, these programs are just the tip of the iceberg. We have very interesting plans in the future that could potentially help even the most inexperienced practitioners and skeptics to explore their consciousness. But for now, we depend on the brave few explorers to go forth and do their best, no matter the level of experience, predisposition and skepticism they possess.
Some won’t astral travel instantly. Some will need weeks, if not months to project. Some won’t be able to until something clicks. However, for most this process will be a lot quicker and less scary after running Alchemist or after/during apX.
The worst thing to do to these brave explorers is to say “you can only do it after months and months, likely not even then”, clipping their wings before they have even attempted to fly.
There is no need to be negative, instead offer help and advice. If the original person you advised doesn’t take it to heart, it doesn’t mean others will not, since there are thousands now reading this forum. We are all here with the purpose to advance our potential.
There have always been Shortcuts.
Music and Mushrooms were in the use long before Mentors and Meditators formalized their scene.
Transforming fully into an elevated being, and having access to elevated states on purpose, are 2 different goals.
What 3 years of mindfulness practice gets to, can be had with 6 months of brainwave music, and accessed in 6 weeks by learning ultradepth hypnosis.
Besides, the path/technique matters. For eg: 10 years of Kriya practice is very different from 10 years of Vipassana.
Beyond the above, SubClub has consistently positively surprised me, and the WeaponX platform has had the fastest of testimonials.
So, there.
I’ll create my expectations when I read the salespages. When dealing with reputable marketers, those have always been useful to me. SC included.