Let's Talk About Subs and MIND CONTROL 🧠

As mentioned on another thread, I used to spend a lot more time on the forum, bringing up interesting discussion topics, interacting with everyone, sharing ideas and hyping products. After recent incidents, I realized just how much I missed logging on and seeing everyone excited, waxing philosophy, debating over topics, etc. Truth be told, coming on to the forum became a nightmare, as the moderator queue would be full of flags, I’d have at least 5 PMs of complaints (not referring to those just asking questions) and at least one big issue that would completely take me away from working. But, that’s my fault. We ultimately set the tone here, and any failings on the forum is a failing of ours.

So… we’re going to bring some of that old charm back to the forum in the form of one my favorite things to do: talk about provocative stuff. :wink:

We get a lot of questions about whether or not subliminals are capable of “mind control.” Here’s my official answer, based off A LOT of data accrued over the past five years, and all the experiments we’ve run. So, is mind control real and can it be done with subliminal audio?

Is it real? Yes.
Can it be done with subliminal audio: Very, VERY doubtful.

“But Saint,” you’re probably thinking, “are you sure you’re not just saying this to cover up the biggest fear most people have about subliminal audio?”

While yes, I am addressing this now because it’s relevant, I’m definitely not covering anything up, and I’ll prove it to you. And, we can all discuss. I’m going to explain why subliminal audio isn’t capable of this, even spilling a bit of boppable secrets (as in, I’m going to get that text from @Fire that’s like, “bro, really?”). Then, I’m going to give you an inside look of what mind control REALLY looks like.

In 2010, Christopher Nolan released his hit movie, Inception. If you haven’t seen this movie, the plot involves a group of hi-tech thieves with the technology to put you to sleep, force you to dream, break into your subconscious and steal your secrets. The targets generally included CEOs of large companies and other “powerful” individuals. A billionaire energy magnate, Saito, hired the team to infiltrate the mind of his rival and perform something called “inception.” In the movie, “inception” involves planting an idea in the subconscious of the target’s mind so that they’ll believe the idea actually came from them. Otherwise, they’d reject it.

This was demonstrated early on in the movie when one of the thieves told Saito, “Don’t think of a white elephant.” Saito, of course, said he thought of a white elephant, as the subconscious mind is very much aware that the idea “don’t think of a white elephant” didn’t originate with himself.

The same is 100% true with audio based subliminals. More on that in a moment.

In the movie, to achieve Inception, the team had to physically infiltrate the deepest portion of the target’s subconscious mind (risking their own lives in the process, as dying at that level would send them into an infinite subconscious creative space called limbo), then create a dream scenario in which the target would reveal the information needed to successfully perform inception, and then they had to act on that. In other words, the were only able to pull it off because they were able to enter the target’s subconscious and observe the thoughts directly.

Audio subliminals do not work like this. Your mind is hyperaware that the influencing agent exists externally. This is why the “I am now…” type affirmations don’t really work as well as you’d think in an audio based subliminal. They work best when you’re READING them, as the subconscious mind then recognizes that you’re trying to instill change within your self. And even then it still rejects half of them.

Reconciliation, stonewalling and lack of results are proof of this. Everyone’s subconscious is different. You’ve seen the many threads of frustrated individuals who feel like they aren’t receiving ANY results from their stack. Well, that’s because their subconscious is simply ignoring the script. There’s a number of theoretical reasons of why this happens (which we’ll discuss in another topic), but the fact of the matter is: if a script doesn’t resonate with you, you’ll simply ignore it.

I’ll give a good example: Our great sage, @Malkuth, when testing WANTED ZP, received little to no results. He mentioned that he could feel himself processing something, but nothing happened externally. Once I revealed that WANTED very much follows the archetype of the coquette, he expressed to us just how little he had in common with that style of romantic interaction. In other words, he simply ignored the script, without even knowing that it was “coquettish.” It didn’t fit with who he was, so nada.

Reconciliation, on the other hand, generally means (in our experience) that there’s parts of the script you do want to integrate, but it’s clashing with existing ideas. As a result, you go through a process in which you evaluate both your existing beliefs, the new beliefs and you integrate what you want, and throw out the rest.

This is also why everyone gets different results when they run a title. CWON is very hard for me to run. I get lots of recon and sometimes even result reversal. My fiancee? Oh, she’s glittering around growing plants and acting like a flower child. Everywhere she goes, people are giving her things for free, trying to engage with her, etc. She’s getting everything CWON has to offer. But, she’s also the highly empathetic, always wanting to help someone type. It just fits her personality much better.

So, is it possible, with our subliminals, to convince you to do something you don’t want to do? No. Can we program you to buy more and more titles? Absolutely not. If you saw the amount of piracy we have to deal with, you’d quickly see that anti-piracy style scripting is essentially useless.

You see, you can’t deny the subconscious it’s right to consent. It’s impossible. Free will seems to be etched into the fabric of who you are at the deepest level. The subconscious will not allow itself to be controlled… unless you can convince the subconscious to AGREE to the actual control. And that can’t be done externally. It has to originate from within.

Remember what happened in Inception? They didn’t actually “plant” an idea in the target’s mind. The target planted his own idea. If you watch the movie, you’ll see what I mean. All the thieves did was create dream scenarios in which the target’s subconscious would then fill up with its own symbology.

So, how does this occur in “the real world?” Very simple. Social media algorithms. How do I know? Because I actually worked on these types of things before becoming an entrepreneur. I’ll give a simplified, but still illustrative example of how this works – and you can do the research yourself. It’s true:

When you browse the Internet while being logged into a social media platform, everything you do is being sent back to that platform. Understand, you don’t even have to have Facebook open in a window, or whatever. Ever notice how once you log into Facebook, it never actually logs you out? That’s by design, as all your searches, website visits, clicks, EVERYTHING is being sent back to the platform and they begin to build a data model based around who you are. And it’s surprisingly accurate, as you’re supplying them with everything they need.

If you also have social media platforms running on your phone, they’re mining even MORE data. Your phone contains a gyro sensor that can sense angular velocity. In other words, they know when your phone is moving around in your pocket, when you’re holding it, etc. Because of that, they know what time you get up, what time you go to bed. What time you tend to go to lunch.

When you mix that with all your Internet browsing data, they can tell you exactly what you’re most likely to do before you do it. They know what types of social media posts you’ll interact with. They know which ones you’ll downvote. They know which ones you’ll ignore. They know everything.

And what do they do with this data? Two things. First, they sell it to advertisers and marketers. This is what I used to do. I could use the platform’s marketing interface and target specific interests and actions, then pay to display ads to you.

Using the tools, I could do something called an “A/B Test.” With this, I could create two variants of an ad and then the social media platform would show variant A to 50% of people and variant B to 50% of people. Then, I’d set a conversion metric, like… “Click ‘Learn More’ Button.” The test would run to completion, and then it’d tell me which variant performed better. Let’s say that “B” won. I’d then analyze the data to see why “B” performed better, then I’d start a new test with “B” competing against a new variant. Usually, the new competing variant “C” would look very similar to “B,” with minor changes (so we can accurately determine why a variant succeeded or failed).

Think I’m lying?


They hide this under titles like “Growth Hacker,” but trust me – it’s all the same. And how effective is this “growth hacking?”

Well, the salary for an AVERAGE growth hacker is around $90k: Growth Hacker with A/B Testing Skills Salary | PayScale

When I lived in California, I made $120k doing it.

And here’s where it gets a bit insiduous.

The second thing they do is use that data to adjust your social feeds. You see, they know exactly what types of posts you’ll interact with and how those posts make you feel. That’s the real reason for the different “emotions” you can react to a post on Facebook with. Using Natural Language Processing (not the NLP you already know about, neurolingistic progamming, but training AI models to understand spoken language – see IBM Watson, which competed on Jeopardy), they can parse your responses and assign an emotional quotient to it. They use that emotional quotient to predict just how angry, or happy, or sad a particular post will make you.

Then, they take you on a rollercoaster. They’ll show you posts that make you happy for a bit, then they’ll start showing posts designed to crash your mood. This rollercoaster action, going back and forth between emotional poles keeps you addicted and swiping. The entire time, they’re collecting this information and using it to improve the accuracy of your data model.

Why do you think, when it comes to politics, you very rarely see positions in the middle? It’s always one extreme or another. They show you the very worst of the political opinions you disagree with and the very best of the ones you do agree with. Over time, you slowly begin to believe that ALL individuals belonging to the “opposing” affiliation holds the same extreme beliefs that you’re seeing on social media.

And guess what, you’re telling them exactly how to manipulate you AND consenting to it, since all of their data is originating from YOUR OWN ACTIONS.

Before you get angry and rage, remember that they don’t even hide this fact. There’s entire Facebook sponsored advertising courses that will tell you this. It’s in their terms of service, which we never read. You can go to marketing blogs right now and get all kinds of information on the various algorithms and how they work.

Most people just don’t care. As long as they get that social media fix, who cares what the mental cost is. When you think about it from the standpoint that you’re giving your willing consent for a third party to shape your views, you can’t even get mad – you’re allowing them to do it. The company has to make money SOMEHOW. It has to keep you on the apps SOMEHOW. And from my standpoint, they aren’t even the ones manipulating you – you’re doing it to yourself because YOU MUST CONSENT.

With an external audio subliminal, we can’t do that. No matter what we put in that script, your mind will always know that the ideas didn’t originate from yourself. But with social media, every thought, every action, everything is originating from you. The cold, calculating algorithm is merely using the information you give it to make a more entertaining platform… and the side effect is that your beliefs and thoughts literally begin to change.

Something to think about deeply: Hulu is doing the same thing with their targeted ads now. And which is more effective at convincing you to do something… like grabbing something to eat: a paragraph describing a hot cheesy pizza, or a video of a delicious pizza?


Inception was an amazing movie. The idea of setting her totem spinning and just leaving it there, knowing she’d eventually check in on it…genius.


Hence ZP, which helps your mind finds it’s own anwser. Is it possible to push it further, in the sense that facebook have some scrolling feed which you give consent too -

Could subs be used in that way in some sort of loop where your subconscious conscent to every single step because it gets some kind of “reward”, which pushes him to move in that direction and keep following instruction?

Is there a possibility have more of a responsability with growth (in the sense of giving conscent) or would that fall in the ground of conscious guidance?


It cannot, because no matter what we write in the script, your mind will always recognize that the idea didn’t originate from yourself. Thus, it’ll just ignore or rewrite parts of the script to fit your needs. With Zero Point, we essentially changed the scripting from trying to push the standard affirmation model and instead began to act as a good friend giving advice. The expression of that advice, and whether to even express it at all, is still your choice.

Not to my knowledge, as any “reward” offered by the script would still require consent. And even then, your subconscious might opt to ignore the requirements of said reward and then just take the reward without fulfilling them, since again, the ideas are coming from an external source.

Can’t force consent. If you’re working a job you hate just because you need the money to survive, there’s no script I can write that will, with 100% accuracy, force you to love that job. Now, what I CAN do is be a good friend and advise you to try and see the good in every job, as there’s something you can learn to and take on to a future experience. And you could just tell me to bugger off and ignore that advice. The consent MUST come from you.

Hence the manufactured consent of social media.

EDIT: Conscious guidance is a form of trying to convince the subconscious to play along with the script, and the reason that conscious guidance works is because the idea was developed internally.


That’s very interesting.

In that situation, and I have a feeling this might be what you guys had in mind with the original AsC (with voice over and conscious manifestation, connecting the conscious with the subconscious), would hypnosis be useful to enable communication conscious-subconscious and try and communicate to play along with an archetype.

For example, I self hypnotize myself, and ask my subconscious to try out the Wanted archetype for 30 days to see it it’s right for me.


I do this when I run my stack now. I have a “self-hypnosis” trigger I’ve established so I go into my mental Sanctuary I built a few years ago. I go into Sanctuary and walk around or just sit in my recliner while a sub runs.

I’ve never done that for a full 3-sub stack though. Usually just 1-2 at a time. Can def feel it hitting “deeper” when I do that.


That’s exactly what we’re going for. I actually worked on the script for the supercharger today. We just had so much crap going on that I couldn’t focus on it like I wanted, but we’re getting back on track.

EDIT: As for the hypnosis question, honestly, I’m not sure. I’m not hating on hypnosis or hypnotherapists at all, but when I was enrolled at Hypnosis.edu, I ended up dropping out because it wasn’t helping me make better subliminals. Superchargers, yes. But subliminals operate a bit differently. It’s still a good school and curriculum, though. I want to return and finish, someday.


Is a joke lol. I did their free basic course. Their definition of hypnosis is something along the lines of “to overload the brain with message units to trigger a fight/flight response”.

It took all I had to get through that. My issue with that definition is it’s just using lingo Kappas came up with to make it “his”.

I get far better results doing hypnosis the way Jeff Stephens or John Cleesattel do it.

Well, after reading all these things about the subQ, I’m thrilled to see how that hypnosis would go and the potential it could have on a stack result.

So basically it’s the next logical step in the evolution of subliminals that “we” as a user choose what we integrate, while all that knowledge is fed to us via our subconscious. The conscious-subconscious part helping making that choice crystal clear.


Yep. I can confirm that this is the basic concept. I remember thinking the notion that it triggers “fight or flight” was weird, and that it was more akin to a person watching television and going into trance. I didn’t really have an issue with the designation of information as message units, though.

I’ll add them to my reading list. I just finished a ton of books, need some more recommendations anyway (not on this thread though, everyone – you can drop them here: SaintSovereign’s Book Club)


Yes, that’s something we’ve always embraced. Those who have been here long enough has heard me say multiple times that excluding the power of the conscious mind is a mistake. Many New Agers tend to downplay the power of direct action, claiming that it’ll break the manifestation process. It CAN, if you sabotage yourself, but you have to take steps toward a goal somehow.


I can see that “Mind Control” requires knowing enough about a person’s own inner symbology to introduce the changes you want them to consider.

Inception’s thing with him spinning her top in the safe only worked because he already KNEW what her totem was and what it meant to her.

So he spun it up and left it. Planting the seed of an idea that Limbo wasn’t “real”.

Fascinating topic, but I’ll shut up now lol. Let others jump in.


I find the idea of conscious guidance very interesting, I’ve been experimenting with manifesting with word and I’ve seen some interesting results that I frankly struggle to explain. I’m hoping that the new version of Ascension Chamber will give me some hints as to how I can get more consistent results from my writing.


Exactly. :wink:

Most people miss that point. And remember what he told Ariadne – never let anyone else touch your totem. It won’t work if anyone else has information on it.

However, I understand why people are afraid of subliminals and mind control. I should’ve started this conversation sooner.


I’ll say this and then leave it alone for you to think about, but Inception is a much deeper movie than many realize. Consider what the thieves had to do to achieve inception, or even stealing the secrets.

They created a false dream based on a real life place, then allowed the person’s subconscious to fill up the dream with projections. Then, they watched. Remember how Saito realized he was a target. He touched the carpet in his secret apartment. The individual in charge of designing the dream messed up the fabric.


Amazing read and very insightful ! I do have one question that came to mind however. What if someone wants to make a 360 turn from where they currently are. Example lets say someone who wants to improve socially or develop charisma and they run DD. If their a shy person would that mean they just totally ignore the script? Or is it just something you have to drill on repeat until you begin to accept your new reality? I can even call myself out for an example since middle school i have been extremely lazy and unable to complete any tasks i had along with horrible procrastination perhaps some of the worst on this forum . Well stage 2 on dragon ive totally took a 360 and now im extremely motivated. So despite being lazy naturally i guess my mind accepted it because i wanted to change?(conscious guidance? )


taking one action, even a tiny one, is enough to start to make a shift.

Like I did here with rearranging my office Journal: Emperor/Rebirth - #146 by Palpatine


So @SaintSovereign , regarding the mind ignoring certain parts of the scripts or not willing to integrate and express it.

Can we conclude that using a small title like God Like Masculinity before Ascension may combat this issue?

Could it be possible that Khans scripting is more advanced and without going through the smaller Alpha titles your mind could possible ignore Khans scripting or parts of it?

Reason why this makes sense to me is simply because, how can one execute deep and more advanced alpha titles when one has not healed masculinity first then developed masculinity.


Total breakdown…


What is your personal (or maybe also research-) opinion on Astrology as a determinator for how well one takes the script?

As in, I have a lot of Gemini placements, so all subs that help me express myself (Stark, RM) I gel with REALLY nice. Even Wanted (hot and cold, right?)

Think it matters? Or can be a guideline?

Tagging @Luther24 who knows about the Dolores Cannon books :wink:
One theme that is reoccurring is that Free Will is THE ABSOLUTE highest doctrine for any being in the cosmos. ALWAYS. There is nothing higher.

I only use Social Media to post stuff, but after this I am thinking of deleting all my apps lol

Kinda insane how this works.