Main Disc. Thread - Stark ZP

Product Discussion
#1044

I don’t think some realize that the whole point of Stark in my opinion is to become a social charismatic leader similar to Tony Stark. A archetype like this doesn’t need some kind of hyper dominance or super alpha behaviour. I never understood people who complained about that not being in it. The whole GOAL of Stark as I seen it is to be someone who works with a team and is social and loves to network. I usually don’t get pissed off but like common man Stark is the most life changing sub I’ve ever used. The fact that people complain about it is absurd to me considering those same people don’t even take action on the sub goals. I went from a depressed loser with 0 friends and 0 income to someone who finally felt happy with a dream social circle that supports me and a high paying job that people dream to have. All from Stark. This took skills, charisma, hard work and intelligence which all came from Stark. I’m not even the only one I can name another 10 people who had amazing results with Stark too.

All in all, Stark is a life changing sub, people just need to stop complain and actually use it properly.

2 Likes
#1045

@SaintSovereign : With HoM becoming more and more popular, get ready to have the same conversation about that sub. “I feel like HoM isn’t alpha enough”! :joy:

2 Likes
#1046

Tony Stark is legit not hyperdominant. There’s no reason why they should change the name of the title. Stark is the Tony Stark archetype if someone has a different definition of how they see Tony Stark that’s there problem. 99% of people here agree that Stark achieves the Tony Stark archetype pretty well. Do people really think Tony Stark is some kind of hyper masculine guy who does all by himself and is “hyper alpha”? If yes, you really need to rewatch the movie and read about who he actually is because it’s clear to me and others he’s not and that’s a good thing because to be a social charismatic leader hyper dominance is the polar opposite of what you need.

3 Likes
#1047

Rewriting the copy or adding to the copy makes a lot of sense.

The first objective in Chosen From Within is a disclaimer that the objectives are very few, but each one hits very deep. It has 9 objectives. Stark has 8.

Mogul and Ascension have about 16-ish each.

GLM:CO has 13 but they’re much shorter sentences than Stark’s.

So the only thing that’s resonating here for me on this discussion about Stark’s “lack” is just the objectives and description. It doesn’t make sense that GLM:CO, Mogul, and Ascension have more objectives than Stark, considering Stark has all this stuff from emperor, plus true social, daredevil, PS, etc., it would make sense to have a very long objectives list.

It was SC directly that stated the more marketing materials are available on any given sub, the more effective the sub becomes. That’s why John Wingliss and The Revelator are characters. That’s why sales copy for RoS and the like get longer and longer and people love those subs more and more. That’s why HERO’s sales page is an epic work of art, visually and linguistically.

And that’s why people are head over heels for those subs right now… yes the new subs have innovations in tech… but they also have innovations in marketing, which is how people make their opinions about what results to expect and what things in life to take conscious action on.

I personally read the sales page and think it’s enough, but if you guys are getting all these support tickets about it being too feminine or whatever, if it’s a repeated task again and again that the support team has to address individually, why not address it once and for all on the sales page directly?

That’s iterative testing, right? If we run into an issue repeatedly, we try and stop it from becoming an issue permanently with a fix like that.

It’s like anything else in life and media, the people who are unhappy are usually the fewest and the loudest, whereas the people that are happiest are generally too busy being happy… that’s true in video game reviews, politics, subs, and beyond.

3 Likes
#1048

People actually need to leave Stark alone and run LBFH instead and fix whatever self-esteem issue is making them feel like hyperdominant alphaness is the Holy Grail to success and social interactions. There, I said it!

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#1049

HoM has like 90% of Emperor’s script, and then a ton of original scripting. It’s just a big sub and requires more time for your to interpret and express the scripting. That one’s easy – I wouldn’t even go for it, everyone. Every title isn’t going to feel exactly the same.

9 Likes
Main Disc. Thread - Emperor: House of Medici v2
#1050

I think some people think angry means “alpha” in their brain and so since Stark doesn’t make them angry it’s not “alpha” which makes no sense and has no logic behind it.

The reason he gets what he wants is not because he “out-alphas people” it’s because he’s a genius charismatic playboy :stuck_out_tongue:

#1051

Thats what EXACTLY I meant!

#1052

Exactly - I’m saying that just because he gets angry in the movies doesn’t mean that in order to be stark you have to blow up at people in real life. His anger is an example of him NOT living up to his own ideals. It’s him in moments of weakness and frustration because he cares about the world but also has a prickly little ego that likes to be right.

That anger, funnily enough cuz @ksub has been harping LBFH this whole thread, that anger comes from Tony’s Ego, not his best self, so even HE needs to run LBFH!

Being smarter than people and more charismatic and being more right and having more friends and having more success as a result of that IS Alpha :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#1053

I think the issue lies in them not actually even taking action on social interactions. @Jouissance and @Extraordinaire knows me better then anyone here and know for a fact I work my a** off to get the social results I get now. I used Stark and worked my social life like I never did before and got social results from it that even I’m shocked by to this day.

1 Like
#1054

And we will, when we upgrade the title. All of the rewritten titles and upgrades have been receiving brand new copy, (ex: SSX).

We have no problem with those types of suggestions. We didn’t even have a problem with people suggesting that they wanted more resilience in the face of fame. The issue came down to this nonsense about it being “weaker” or “feminine” because it didn’t feel like Emperor, and that only happened because it was the first title listed as “Any Gender.”

Which is rooted in sexism and prejudice, whether they want to realize it or not. “Oh no, how could the title be alpha and hard hitting if a WOMAN IS CAPABLE OF RUNNING IT?”

Us: We just said the language is conditional, allowing women to run it. The viewpoint is still the same – it’s very much a “traditional masculinity” sub. We didn’t cut anything to make it “easier” to run. We didn’t cut anything because we were worried what might happen if a woman ran it. When women have asked us about Stark, we made it clear – don’t be shocked if you feel more aggressive, because it’s very much written from the perspective of what one would call “traditional masculinity.”

Again, the issue stems from self-sabotage. People so damaged by “gender neutral” concepts blasted on the media that they literally hurt their own results, then use that as affirmation that it’s “feminine.”

It’s an absolute cluster.

12 Likes
#1055

@SaintSovereign, calling somebody shit is rude. No problem, its your forum, but… you know, @ksub is right.

We saw Tony Stark in movies, read comics he can be very dominant.

And, btw, Stark being “feminine” is not MINE proposition. I think that Alphamale named it feminine, no?

I already explained what I wanted from Stark.

It was A FEEDBACK, not critique.

So, sunsetting of interesting sub that was, as I remember a “pinnacle of best parts of Emperor(!), Daredevil” and etc… its your choice, of course, you are a master but… is it a bit harsh?

#1056

Pretty sure “that shit” was reffering to the new sub name man.

6 Likes
#1057

They’re projecting. Based on their own “red pill” ideas, the fact that billionaire, genius, playboy Tony Stark only had eyes for Pepper when he could realistically have the majority of women on this planet is NOT “ALPHA.”

So, I guess to make Stark more accurate, we should remove the massive amounts of sexual scripting and add Heartsong, right? Because, if we’re going to following the character EXACTLY, you need to find one woman to be with forever so you can focus on your work.

Waiiit – he also made Pepper the CEO of his company, so we’ll need to add THAT scripting also. The “put yo’ wife in charge of your company” module.

How about daddy issues (Iron Man 2) scripting? It would allow you to explore your relationship with your father, so that you can discover the secret of building a tech empire (because in the MCU, that’s how he revolutionized the Arc Reactor or something).

Better add that as well.

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#1058

^^ What he said.

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#1059

I hope so.

Because, I was surprised how feedback and suggestions to new Stark arises so much emotions.

Fame + have enough power to “stand the ground” is what I expect from new Stark.

What about my internal issues. Well, I’m deeply in psychology, coaching since 2004. I can say that I have some knowledge about my issues.

And I quite sensitive to my felt sense feelings.

These leads me to my feedback.

I liked @SaintSovereign mentioned “father issues” :laughing: ”If somebody suggests something, it doesn’t mean that this person is your projection of father telling you what to do”.

1 Like
#1060

How long have you been running Stark and what actions have you taken when running it?

#1061

I know it’s a joke but stark with heartsong, manifest a competent & trustworthy partner that you can even put your confidence into running your companies, and resolving childhood issues to gain more success does sound really enticing.

I’d personally be more attracted to that version, lol.

1 Like
#1062

@Tomcat

It’s your phrasing. In today’s world of gender wars and gender panic, most men here don’t want a title taking away their masculine edge, which they see as an advantage against a rapidly transforming society. So, you leaned into the whole “any gender” thing being the flaw.

What I actually see – and why we tell people to let us do our thing without pressure – is that we made StarkQ and Stark ZP’s script before we learned as much about fame as we have. Understand that when we say we do research, we do research. Our lives at this point is pretty much meditation, research, working on SubClub, some games to unwind. We spend almost every moment during the day thinking about SOMETHING related to these concepts.

So when you said this:

While I have ideas about what actually caused this, THIS is something I can work with. I can ask others who have been in the spotlight on Stark how they felt and it’s something we can attempt to address directly with scripting. We have a talent for understanding subtext and interpreting what people want when they say something a little unclear.

So, while I disagree with you that Stark can’t handle these situations, there’s no harm in adding “resilience under pressure” scripting and the such and that’s something we can definitely do.

I cannot work with analogies of it being “feminine” or “arty farty,” because in terms of changing or enhancing the script, those terms offer me no value whatsoever, especially when I’m looking at the script and I see it’s chock full of Emperor.

9 Likes
#1063

Imma just say that from all existing subs waiting for an update, I’m the most excited about Stark.
Based on what I experienced with ROM, Genesis, WB, NR - the update will be a blast.
Let’s not joke about sunseting a sub that is the favorite for so many people here.

4 Likes