I think that you’ve been looking at subs the wrong way. While they can be very helpful as tools of manifestation, think of them as XP boosting potions in an RPG. While you will naturally gain a small amount of XP doing a regular task, adding a sub will multiply your progress 10x (purely an arbitrary number by the way). Essentially all of your efforts will be rewarded much faster, without much cognitive dissonance. In your case spend an hour studying each day and Ascension quickly make you want to study for 6 hours. If you don’t do any action then only the passive XP you acquire will be boosted and, in that scenario, you will also get bonus XP, but instead of reaching lv2 in 3 days, it may take you 3 weeks to do so (again a purely arbitrary number).
In my personal experience, they work extremely well. ZP even more than the versions before. Now there are a few things to watch out for: ZP really triggers an inner transformation. In practice that means results may creep up on you without you ever noticing. Certainly happened to me a few times, where weeks later I had an “oh, wow” moment.
It’s also possible to over-analyze it. I find the most useful thing is to run a sub (or a stack) that is in accordance with my current goals and things I do, and then just get on with it. That is where the subs really give a massive boost. Including these days where everything just comes together perfectly without me even having to do anything for it. If you want to see that I would really recommend to have a goal, and take some action every day towards it. It can be small, but doing beats analyzing.
Depending on where you are right now, this may take more or less time. Any internal conflicts rising to the top are a pretty good sign your subconscious is working on it. Including doubt, I would say. Doubt is your mind trying to protect you from change. Change is not comfortable for most people, and for the mind it tends to feel threatening. That also means there’s something happening, and your mind is trying to keep things the same. For that, ideally just let go and adopt an open mind, and an experimental attitude. In an experiment you don’t doubt, you just do it and see what happens. I mean, think about it: The very worst thing that can happen is that you listen 15 minutes every second day to the pleasing sound of gurgling water. The best thing, on the other hand…. You really cannot lose on this.
If you let yourself get into that doubt pattern you may end up blocking yourself. (See above….just run the appropriate sub and get on with it without thinking too much is a really good antidote…. 
)
And since you mentioned people running subs after years….well, yes. I do, because they work. If they didn’t I’d have been out after a few weeks. As it it, I tend to run whatever supports my current projects, even if I’ve run them before. They still give a good boost.
I think I understand what you are saying so even without action the results will come but it will be slower yet with action the results will be far great?
What about someone using a sub such as limit destroyer, someone that is trying to either heal the past or clear internal beliefs, what actions could that person then take? im asking simply to understand.
Great thank you and since you run the subs often does that mean the results arent permanent?
Day 11 - 1 loop ( Fri- 27th May 2022)
I played the sub and the volume was louder than usual i think and then i got headaches so I reduced it and the headache went but then I doubted if it was loud enough since I had a cooling fan on in the room so had to find a middle ground. Did I miss a few seconds of the 15mins, possibly, so hope that isnt a big deal.
Couldnt sleep at all for hours and hours and hours and then finally slept only to get woken up 6hrs later. Since my sleep cycle and personal lifestyle at home are greatly disturbed and even ruined due to the responsibilities I have which I cannot go into, it leaves me feeling frustrated just like any person. I cant simply wait to move out.
I dream of that moment which should be in 2 months time enough time to have this sub build in me. 2months is because the family have placed an offer on a house and the paper work is all going through which then will allow me to fully move out. All my stuff is in storage literally, what space I have is used by family and all im doing is literally living like a hermit/obi wan kenobi.
That aside, I have a charitable endeavour that I run on discord with some people from different country to provide a social hub for people of like minds and its a fun friendly place for those people so i work on this every night with those people after replying to everything on this forum.
Is that work taxing, boring, hard no not at all. Things that are emotionally hard and fearful are things like studying and planning for work which entails studying and admin stuff that needs to happen online but I just feel restless, unready, unprepared to even start and that is the problem.
I hope in 2months even a small crack in this resistance with the help of this sub will get me moving.
nothing else to report.
Exactly.
As you read from @Sub.Zero in the above thread, Limit Destroyer is best used when you know your limitation and fears, in that case doing things to undermine that fear would work. In the case of healing subs, they will bring up the traumas and situations that are holding you back and you need to take time to properly process the event, if you run away from what you see then the result won’t be pleasant. The keyword is introspection.
Thank you bro and I was a little confused by @Sub.Zero when he said (changing identity and unlocking an archetype) so in your own words how would you explain rebirth and LD’s difference?
For me the main issues are why im hesistating and full of fear in taking action, why do I procrastinate, why can I be persistent daily, why is my will power strong at the start and then eventually dies and how to remain and keep that flow going and not feel everything is hard or a chore or an effort when its about trying to change.
Things that are easy are easy for me, things that others find simple that are hard for me are very hard to either start or once started to continue with.
I have the conscious desire to be successful I just am not becoming that. No idea why.
Not at all. Although what “permanent” means in terms of subs…keeping in mind that we’re subject to any number of influences all the time…. They are certainly lasting, and every new round starts from a different vantage point. Even if you’ve run a sub for a while it may pay to come back to it eventually.
There’s two things I’ve noticed reading over your posts: You appear to have a huge desire for certainty - that may be detrimental when it leads to the mind coming up with new possible problems all the time. If you try to take it easier and just experiment I think you may find it more fun, and more profound.
The other is that you appear to have a big focus on your current situation, and are trying to use the subs to get out of it. The problem with that is that “out of” keeps your focus on where you are right now. And that makes it a lot harder to get out. A shift in focus - “where do I want to go” - keeping your mind there, and using the subs to support you on the way to a goal (rather than away from a situation) might be useful as well.
thanks bro and hmm i see what you are saying about shifting my focus and ill have to ponder and re-read what you wrote.
I think where my need for certainty comes from is due to having spent years and years and years in trying subliminals or hypnotherapy to try and overcome my procrastination and fears and hesistations and nothing has worked. Then trying other tools nothing has worked.
Lastnight having headaches due to the loud volume gave me some certainty and thus hope. I do hope that whether i doubt or fear either way these ZP 15mins subliminals are powerful enough to work even with all that.
The shift in focus is simply I think due to me journalling everyday. By journalling that is where my focus is, to share whats happening in the day and of course to align it with the sub and the sub is there to work on my issues thus all are prominent in my mind.
If I didnt have to journal at all and simply played and came back in 60days maybe then it would be great but that isnt what is suggested. Atleast my daily journal helps in keeping the forum active lol
Well…that is precisely what I mean. Don’t use it to work on your issues and journal about how your issues are today. Notice how you’re getting back to your issues right there?
If instead you use it to work towards something and journal about your actions in regard to that and your progress you’ve automatically got a shift of focus from “current issues” to “progress towards goal”. Even if that may be small at the beginning. If you adopt that mindset it also keeps you asking what you can do towards your goals today. Which helps you go forward. Way more useful.
oh I see thats smart but then how will i know if the steps I achieve are due to my own will power and brute force or the sub?
It’s not the subliminal vs you. It’s the subliminal AND you.
The scripting questions and challenges your core operating beliefs relating to the archetype of the sub you run. For you that’s Alpha Male behavior.
Your beliefs slowly start to align with the subs identity and you end up changing into that type, your actions and thoughts align with the goals of that sub.
Start looking at the subs in a better way, to me it looks like you want the sub to “take you over, and make you do things” it’s you who decides and takes actions congruent to the subs.
Have fun, frame the sub in a positive light, feel gratitude towards it and try to kill that doubt you carry from all your previous sub let downs from inferior producers.
Cheers mate
Thanks a lot Geoff as always.
right yeah thats what I think too so that eventually taking action is almost inspired. Its easy to take action because the fear is less or not there even or the motivation to become a better more successful person has increased due to the thoughts aligning, right?
So I feel I want the sub to help me to change the beliefs I have. I did think subs before were a bunch of affirmations that repeated enough times become your own self talk and thus your own new beliefs and those then take over leading to those feelings which lead to you changing in behaviour and actions due to those feelings, make sense? not sure im explaining it well.
yeah thats hard to do lol ive spent so many hours listening to subs, making sure the speakers were the right frequency for their ultrasounds and oh man which I found this place sooner. lol
thanks man
The main question in Mental Alchemy one needs to ask themselves is; who do I need to become to achieve what I want effortlessly? Then choose the right programs to become that “someone”. Archetypes are types of that “someone” who you need to become to achieve what you really desire. Self-introspection and asking yourself the question “what I REALLY want” is vital.
thank you that makes sense.
Day 12 - no loop ( Sat- 28th May 2022) - part 1
Havent slept at all yet - its bad but i feel good lol
I will sleep shortly
I feel fine though I was feeling bored and restless and still hesitating from doing anything career related - its as if I feel well no point until I have all my boxes in order as so to say.
I also have been on the forum asking about what to use to help subs be internalised and activated more easily and it seems that Limit Destroyer is the winner as it deals with those issues I have which are fear and hesistation and procrastination and perfectionism related which i think all come from lack of self belief and fear which I know Ascension also works on.
So after 60days lets see where im upto and then maybe I may add LD to the list though just running Ascension on its own is still a good enough plan too.
I also still have a fondness of limitless (or 1 of its associated subs whichever is relevant as no idea for now) as well as executive since that deals with procrastination and fear and confidence.
So maybe the final stack eventually could be:
Ascension
LD
and perhaps limitless, or something or executive.
There is limitless executive but unsure if thats 2 for the price of 1 or its like Ascension Mogul, which is a little ascension to help mogul be activated whereas I want full limitless or something to help with studying and learning of academic material (and in my career frequent yearly tests and exams will come up too but i need to know lots and lots of information for my career daily) and full executive to get me over my fears and procrastination etc
Phew what do you all think?
thanks feeling good though and postive for now
part 2 to this journal will be added to the bottom of this, after I sleep and have more to say lol
Part 2
I couldnt sleep until very very late and so ive only had around 4-5hrs sleep. Tired yes but nothing major.
Felt good and this is because I feel there is hope, after 60days I will either continue on with the sub alone or add limit destroyer and ascension chamber.
This is based off of advice some some of you here that have replied to my posts in the Q&A regarding how to make subs be intergrated and achieve listed objectives far quicker and more easily.
Other than this it has been a short day with no stress or pressure. I seem to be getting on with chores without really thinking about it or stressing - well today only but im adding it incase its a trend I noticed over the course of this sub.
Thanks for reading.
Day 13 - 1 loop ( Sun - 29th May 2022) - part 1
So I have yet to listen to the loop and then sleep - as usual my sleep cycle has continued to be messed up.
That being said I had the urge to eat and then shower (a task I dont really enjoy as well as give myself a hair cut which is effort too) and I did do this. Is it me taking action no idea but noting.
I shall return for part 2 to add below later.
I must add quickly that I think I had a dream and forgot to mention it on day 12 post. I cannot remember the dream except I think it wasnt a happy dream but not all that dark either.
Day 13 - 1 loop ( Sun - 29th May 2022) - Part 2
I couldnt sleep until very very late and then listened to today’s loop and slept.
Got woken after only 5hrs sleep give or take.
Zombie for the remainder of the day but got on with my chores.
Sat down at laptop to get on here with all family members asleep and then there was a big BANG sound as if someone had broken in.
I didnt hesistate though my heart was pounding, I immediately pulled down the laptops monitor to put it to sleep and ran out of my bedroom (door was already open) and listened from the top of the stairs.
Has this happened before yes but not so loud, usually something fallen somewhere but this time it was very different. Have I reacted similarly yes but with some hesitation however somehow todays was without thought, instinctive almost.
Sister came out of the room from her sleep as she heard something too and so I went down to check and all safe and returned back. Shes gone to sleep, parents and siblings all asleep so they didnt hear anything.
Anyway back here now and nothing else to add except spoke to sister earlier about plans for me to move out since staying at home really is a black hole and sucks the productivity out from you. Will I fare any better when alone, I hope so as I dream and fantasise to be more productive but past experience living alone has proven I end up losing my motivation and becoming a hermit and a procrastinator. That is why im here after all to change things.
Anyway speaking to sis it seems that the new property for me (delayed due to covid) should be ready to move into maybe in 2months as what I have mentioned on here before. However it seems unlikely I will be working for 6months as the window for applications will have probably gone, I will also have to do some legal exams/tests as well as get my licence for my career done which includes this test and during all this I hope to focus on my health and fitness goals so that by the time I am ready I can apply and get going.
Part of that health and fitness goal is trying out the subs from here.
Also even though ive been going back and forth about what sub would be good to add later once I know Ascension does indeed work for me (as no point wasting money if it doesnt) and so far its been Limit Destroyer and Ascension Chamber, the desire to then also use Executive to combat all my procrastinations and wavering motivation keeps popping up as I have so many daily tasks to do some effort, some boring and all tedious when done daily as well as using Limitless (1 of those).
Decisions decisions
Day 14 - no loop ( Monday- 30th May 2022)
I was unable to come on and do this journal so here I am however I have forgotten much of anything except I think I had some dreams and otherwise nothing to share except that I was extremely sleepy from my mad sleep regime and cycle due to personal reasons and responsibilities at home.
Slept so couldn’t come on and nothing to add.
Day 15 of 60 - 1 loop ( Tues- 31st May 2022) - Part 1
Ive reached the 15th day of a minimum 60 day listening protocol. So 1 quarter of the way there.
I listened to the 15mins track, louder than quieter which I prefer otherwise I will be 2nd guessing if its loud enough lol.
The day has started and so lets see but the daily journaling is going along, im keeping this journal and the forum active of course but other than this so far nothing to report in the last 15 days except moments of boredom and feeling fed up which ive been told is recon.
So major recon since these and hopefully when I reach 60 days I can look back and say this sub has show me its working on me and then if I do add another sub such as Limit Destroyer that it helps more than give me more heavier recon lol
Part 2 ill add below later on.
Part 2
Sister is doing with a legal issue and wanted me to read some light reading documents but normally I would feel stressed or lose focus either cos it seems daunting or because I am being told to do it - at least these are my assessments I could be wrong but the point is im not always comfortable, sometimes I am sometimes not .
Well today i was and noticed it. I was still impatient listening to sis but I was more confident.
Sis also complimented me that I am far more logical in these matters and that reverberated in my mind.
Later in the day it then came to her discussing this with dad and she wanted me there. Family discussions are always major stress. Nobody is listening everyone is trying to speak but I felt even though I kept losing my cool that I was Mr Logical lol
Thats all for now… part 3 may be needed so ill try and be on later for that.
Part 3
Nothing to add. I think I had dreams but cant remember them but forgot to mention this.
Other than this nothing to say.
Day 16 of 60 - no loop ( Wed- 1st June 2022) - Part 1
So last night I was exhausted super early. Whereas ive been going bed around 9am all the way to 6pm and waking after 5hrs sleep lastnight after weeks i was tired and slept at a normal human time of 10.30pm and then woke suddenly at 4am and couldnt sleep so spent time on youtube and tiktok and then woke at 7am and had a nice big breakfast while family were all asleep.
My sleep pattern has been due to the responsibilities I have at home however suddenly going to bed early was shockingly fortunate for me.
So for the past years ive been wanting to use a herb, not weed lol legal and good for focus and concentration sold in capsules but never have due to being a procrastinator etc anyway today decided ill order some. The plan was to start on them when I move out which should be in around 2months time BUT then ill need to wait for them to kick in so decided to get them now and start using them whenever they are delivered which as its from abroad will take about 2 weeks according to amazon.
Then I was on whatsapp and my mate from uni told me of how 2 classmates are now working in our respective fields and getting experience etc. My plan was to return home from uni in February, move out in February, and then by now be studying and knowing what to do but due to my family responsibilities and not having a place ready (the one we were going to get for me fell through) im delayed majorly.
Hearing about these 2 people that I dont like made me feel somewhat jealous as well as a little fearful but it is what it is.
Right now all I can do is move out and then be independent and in control of my schedule and day whereas right now its 100% dictated by family.
This is why I hope that this sub does the ground work in the 60days listening at least no matter how much that is. I also hope that if I listen for 90 days then so be it as long as it works and lays down the foundations I need it to to work on my fears.
I have so many goals to start once I move out. Right now my room is a small box room, my stuff is in suitcases/luggage and boxes and im literally living like a hermit.
Once I move out the first month will be left to unpacking and organising all of my things which will easily take me 1 month as I have so much. I then need to get the ball rolling on other things and will try to work on each one a little every day at the very least.
In january after a few weeks of email negotiations I obtained a 35% discount form an academic publisher who produces books for topics in my profession and career for students and I used most of my savings on buying over 20 books so that when I am able to I can learn from these. I was given 1 of these during my final exams by a friend at uni and this book was amazing and a life saver in its presentation from A to Z. I wish I had come across these books in the series long ago as it would have saved me a lot of time wasted in trying to obtain good information online.
Anyway I have the resources I just need to the time and space to get on with it. I have so much to do when I move out, a lot that I dont want to share online except that I know that with this sub by the time im out of this family home its my destiny to make.
And yeah im still contemplating when that 60 or 90 days is reached and IF i see some results in some way whether to add in something like limitless subs from its family of subs or executive or whether to go with Limit destroyer and Ascension Chamber.
I hope by then the road ahead is clear for me. 
Anyway part 2 will be later
Part 2
Sadly there is nothing else to add that I can remember except that I went to bed again at a healthy human time of around 11pm which is unfounded for me and that is terrific.
Day 17 of 60 - 1 loop ( Thurs- 2nd June 2022)
So woke up around 9-10am today later than the 4am from yesterday. Still good for me.
Managed to do chores and ate breakfast.
Watched the Queens Jubilee celebrations during the morning on tv news and kept having thoughts of how rich she is or people are, or privileged they or others are or how tall and good looking they are - basically a reflection of what must be my low self esteem. Hoping this sub works on that.
Then had thoughts of how can I become rich and how can the subs here help me to change my inner beliefs and self talk to allow me to become rich. Others are why not me. - again low self esteem I think.
Then opened up some parcels that mum was annoyed were just sat in the corner for months since they arrived.
1 was a complex textbook but another was complex topic but I think done in a nice way and I didnt feel as anxious as I flicked through them and wondered if this is the sub.
However now typing about them is making me a little anxious.
Either way I hope I can have the time to dedicate 10mins a day to read the latter book at least.
if there is a part 2 ill be on later and ill add it.
Part 2:
I forgot to add that whilst watching the jubilee on tv, I saw some very hot women and desired them of course and then realised I have a long way to go to reach that so hoping this sub works on my self esteem and insecurities.
Other than this, I was extremly tired at a sensible early time and went to bed which is great for me and unsure if this is the sub but feel it may well be lol I didnt think it worked on sleep.
I slept late however but no big deal as i woke up still earlier than I ever do.