Which sub(s) work directly on the "Nice Guy" syndrome?


Which sub(s) work on the “Nice Guy” syndrome?

I watched a podcast from thefearlessman.com last night since the email subject pointed right at me: “Are you afraid of women?” Its focus was on “nice guys” in relationships.

Yes. I’ve initiated 1 date my entire life. I’m on Emp 4 now, and I’ve been wondering why I’m afraid of women. The speaker in the podcast pointed out we may have bad examples (I did) and likely generalize such experiences onto all women. Check. That’s me.

What this speaker focused on was many nice guys believe that if they’re honest about even small things, the girl will be upset and likely leave. A fear of abandonment locks them up. So we (I) am rarely honest with beautiful women. And women despise a man with no backbone around them. It forces them to lead. This killed my relationship with my now ex-wife.

What sticks with me is women feel more secure around an honest man, even if he’s an asshole. They know what to expect. But being a nice guy, I lie all the time.

I imagined this afternoon getting a custom sub for such issues. Specifically, it would:

  • encourage my honesty with myself and others
  • help rewrite old misunderstandings of myself such as things I am not responsible for
  • help me face and heal old abandonment issues in me
  • (add all the other stuff cited on Primal’s objectives)

But before going that route, how much does Primal focus on such stuff?

Here’s that podcast. I’m not sure how long it’ll show since they have a timer on the page.

PRIMAL. Astounding Results

keeping this reply pure and simple i believe emperor will do the trick.


Emperor + PCC.


i was thinking today about asking about a sub to become an asshole
i want to be selfish i want to think women money should naturally be mine i want to think less of those around me
i want to be confident and stop caring about others and what they think
i’ve been a niceguy all my life and it sucks and im sick of it


That made me laugh @meyer. I read your first sentence, thinking “hmm… let’s see how that works out”. I kept reading and saw you’d been a nice guy all your life–and it was the proverbial headsmack. I’m like “oh. I get it!” I really do.

Emperor is a true driver, pushing one’s limits constantly. I hadn’t put Power Can Corrupt as a sexual or …ok…“nice” relational sub. (I had to point that out; I’d not viewed its value outside of business relationships) I’ve not read enough PCC journals yet. I’m guessing since it makes one aware of their own motivations in writing. Maybe some are holding their cards close to the chest.


When I started my self-improvement journey a couple years ago this was my same scenario. This was before I heard of subliminals fyi. But yeah I was fed up and I was a big asshole especially to girls. I think it’s natural that if you’ve been living on one extreme and you realize it’s all a lie (people are gonna walk over and girls are gonna disrespect you and all that), you’re gonna naturally go into the other extreme (be an huge asshole, etc) for a period of time. The Anger Phase they call it. I think it’s natural to be in the anger phase, but don’t dwell or stay there. You’ll see results but don’t live there. I don’t believe it’s a healthy long-term mindset. It’s necessary but not optimal or the most effective or productive way to live. Being an extreme asshole will work for lower quality women and people, but higher quality people (males and females) will be repelled. Eventually, you’ll calibrate and fall somewhere in the middle (way more on the assertive, keep your boundaries, no disrespect spectrum).

I was in my Anger Phase for awhile. It’s hard and you’re pissed cause everything about social dynamics you’ve been taught you realize is a lie. Now, I accept how things are in the world, and I use it to my advantage but I view everyone and everything in this world as being connected in some way. If there’s toxic people out there, I don’t worry getting revenge or showing them up. I simply cut them off. Waste of my time for that negative energy. Same goes for females. Be assertive and keep your boundaries. Eventually (hopefully) you’ll come out your anger phase smarter and more stoic.


Regarding PCC, it’s kind of strange. I’ve been seeing different power dynamics at work all week. I spent some time last weekend watching YT videos on the 48 Laws of Power, and—quite apropos now that I think of it–one secretary at my work I’ve just been clueless over. She has a boyfriend, but she usually turns sweet when I’m around. It throws me off since she’s rather curt to all the other workers–all men. A few workers liken her to “a snake in the grass”, which I’ve seen a number of times.

I like the laws of power. I’m guessing I’ve been ignoring the laws which showed potential for abandoning some of my own norms. However, Emp4 is pushing me out of my normal comfort zones, and I even spilled some tears Friday and yesterday, a sign that some things are ready to be let go of.

Rome wasn’t built in a day. Neither was I. I’d been running Regeneration all day, but I turned on Emp4 an hour ago. I realize I’m on the edge of imminent change. @Malkuth said the best way of minimizing reconciliation was to take action. So, I am.


I’d say Ascension. Some might recommend Khan or emperor but honestly I feel like most people aren’t ready for it. I don’t know maybe I’m biased but nice guys are a different breed of person. I say this having been a nice guy for most of my life and still struggling with it. The paradigm shift in emperor and Khan just seems like it would stir up a ton of reconciliation given that nice guy behavior is based in fear most of the time and survival strategies. You don’t just uproot that hard because then your subconscious perceives the change as life threatening.

Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s my opinion. One thing I’ve learned throughout life is it’s better to make small gradual progressive improvements rather than biting off more you can chew and just ending up in a loop of past traumas and emotional distress.


I have a lot more reflection and learning to do on this one.

For me personally, when it comes to dysfunctional interpersonal modes, I think I primarily have two. One is a ‘nice guy’. The other one is an ‘unreachable, remote guy’.

I don’t aspire to be an asshole. Frankly, I think that if you’re being an asshole just to get the approval of a girl, then you’re practically still a nice guy. You’re just a nice guy trying out a new strategy.

To me, the essence of the ‘nice guy’ syndrome is not the level of politeness. It’s the fact that you’re using a different person than yourself as the main gauge for your personal decisions and behaviors. You’re turning up the heat because someone else is cold. You’re eating because someone else is hungry. You’re subjugating your own values and experiences to those of someone else. Forget leading others, you’re not even leading yourself.

To me, the point is not about being ‘an asshole’, it’s about focusing on what you personally need, value, and want when you’re making your choices.

There’s definitely some overlap between those two concepts. But they’re not the same thing. Focusing on what you need does not mean that you have to shit on someone else’s needs. But it does mean you’ll be more willing to have tough conversations when there’s a needs-based conflict.

For now, I find the whole ‘asshole-nice guy’ dichotomy to be insufficient.

But I do think that for most people, ‘being an asshole’ for a while can be a helpful exercise in learning to put your own values first. Especially if you’ve been doing the opposite. It’s like using dynamite to clear debris out of a mine shaft so that you can go down into the mine. Once the mine is open, you don’t just keep blowing up more and more dynamite. That would be stupid because it would make the mine basically useless.

Doing asshole behavior sometimes can probably clear out some of the debris of ‘putting others’ values above your own’. But once the debris is clear, for god’s sake, don’t just keep being an asshole as your new ‘Way of Life’.


I read again more slowly, and saw that my above post kind of reiterated what @i_am had already said. Definitely have an emotional reaction to this topic. It’s probably one of those things I’ll be working with throughout my whole life.


man, there’s a whole lot in this topic. thanks for starting it @subliminalguy.

on the one hand, there’s the whole ‘nice guy’ issue, as mentioned in the topic heading. That by itself is a huge topic.

But then there’s also the part brought out by @elementary_vision. In essence, what are the best ways to train major growth over time. Gentle, gradual training progressions? Intensive, grueling programs? And what about attentional emphasis and focus. Is it best to place emphasis on attainable goals? Emphasis on an ultimate, radically inspiring, long-term ideal?

Possibly various ratios of all of these elements and more.

One thing’s certain: It’s January 2020. Some people are using Emperor v4 (including me). Some are working with Ascension and Ascended Mogul. Personal growth (especially consciously driven personal growth) can be very idiosyncratic. But I’d still guess that these two groups may meet in the middle at some point. Ultimately, you have to listen to your own experience to determine how hard the program is driving you, and whether it’s really too much.

Both of these programs are, in part, about establishing Ego Strength (which is sort of the crux of what we’re talking about). We’ll have to keep observing and see just how this strengthening process works for different people.

A third point that also feels related to me and that may be a little more niche: Empaths. Like some people, I am relatively high in empathic orientation. Sensitive to, responsive to, and easily aware of certain aspects of people’s internal, experiential processes. I think this trait imparts some unique dimensions to the process of increasing ego strength and personal power. I don’t think it’s something to be crushed; just like I wouldn’t want to crush my sense of visual sight. I think the tricky lesson is learning to balance the information from outside with the needs and information from inside.

That seems to be part of my own Nice Guy journey. Maybe the biggest part. It feels like it’s not about other people. It’s about ME.

I get the sense that Regeneration, and Ascension would both be helpful with that. But I also think that those healing and strengthening elements are included in Emperor. Just in a less pinpointed way, and mixed with many other elements.

So I think that the choice to use Emperor or Ascension or Regeneration or whatever combination of all three is also connected to how urgent that specific issue—emotional healing—is for the individual. For me, for now, I’m sticking with Emperor. I’ve learned to cope with this stuff in my lifestyle. My coping was improving before I ever started using subliminals. So I don’t feel in critical need of an immediate ‘cure’. I think I’m okay to work with Emperor over a year or so on a variety of changes and projects, including but not limited to this ‘Nice Guy’ project.


Not a subliminal but if you haven’t already I highly suggest you read no more mr nice guy and do the exercises he gives you. I’ve read that book a number of times over the years and I’m always learning new things. I’m currently reading dating essentials by the same author dr Robert Glover. It’s a book more then just dating it’s actually a book on anxiety and how your self beliefs etc hold you back from getting what you want. I’ve only read a few chapters but I can’t put it down just like I couldn’t put no more mr nice guy down when I first read it. I highly recommend you give these books a try and look up dr glover on YouTube he has tons of podcast up,also fearless man Brian recommends his book


If you enjoy fearless man you will 100 percent enjoy Robert glover here’s a a podcast where fearless man interviews him


Good stuff, @Grimm1390. I’m about an hour in.

at 51:15 of the video, Brian offers this bit of nuance

And I think there is benefit to having been a nice guy. You learn to really develop that feeling side of you. Then bring back your masculinity and put the two together. And stop being…

(He trails off there, and starts getting into a different topic. But I think it would be hilarious to know how he was going to finish that sentence. Maybe it would have started off with ‘such a…’ haha.)


Thank you @Malkuth. I enjoyed your thought out reply. Personally, I haven’t had ambition to be a complete asshole because yes, being a complete asshole with aims to please a girl is, essentially, being a nice guy covertly. Thanks for sharing that possibility.

I have many signals and signs showing me I’m a nice guy. I could use anger as a front to counter it, but again, I agree it’s more about ego strength than my expression of anger. I grew up with a brother who showed a lot of anger all the time, and I was afraid of his unpredictable actions he’d use to get his way. He’s shared numerous times throughout the years that he always was a scared little boy inside using anger to get what he wanted. He was 180 from me, being an asshole most of the time, but regretting it later. His wife is now an ex, and his kids have tried to distance themselves. My brother has been in survival mode all his life, which signals he wasn’t solid; he was just scared. His expression was different.

Regarding Emperor, I listened last night using a set number of loops. I checked my bitcoin exchange my miner advised, but this exchange is doing nothing but stealing from me. Mr. nice guy (me) would normally sit, stew, and question MYSELF about being screwed, but after seeing my account, I messaged him angrily that I don’t want to mine there anymore since they take but avoid any explanations at all. I am NOT about being screwed. I’ve spoken up a few times, but a lot more since I’m with SC.

I know by my gut feelings that I’ve avoided speaking up since…my truth…I’d actually take responsibility for this. Being a nice guy (to me) means YOU are responsible for MY feelings and my choices. And that has been a core issue in me not growing up emotionally. Emperor has been challenging that consistently, shown by tears seeking to come out while admitting this. Damn. I’ve hidden this from myself over the years, but it gives me NO courage. It demasculates me.

How can one grow up if they’re constantly dodging it? They can’t. And I haven’t. Thank God Emperor doesn’t agree with this.

@Grimm1390, I’ve not bought the book yet. But I did seek audiobook versions of it on YT 2 nights ago. I ended up watching the podcast I mentioned in my first post. I expected someone to mention that book earlier. And thanks for sharing links here. I’ll check them out tonight when I’m home from work. I’m needing to get out the door now. MUCH appreciated.


What @Malkuth said essentially. It’s all about living from the real Self

Nice guy behaviours are rooted in fear of “what if they don’t like the real me”. So you develop a false persona to try to get your needs met. But the absolute root is a failure to bond appropriately with parents.

Once that attachment trauma can be healed, the core shame of being a man can also be resolved.

Personally, Regeneration and Ascension have cracked the code. But from there, any alpha sub can build on that stable platform.


Want to try that some day.


@Michel @Malkuth haha lots of golden nuggets in that video. Also nice guys don’t like to rock the boat. They try to do everything perfect to avoid conflicts. glover says nice guys are men without a dick basically. These men myself included glover says we feel deep down that we are unworthy and unlovable. Many of us self sabotage because in our core or subconscious we feel we don’t deserve xyz.
I can go on and on on this topic. Nice guys never realize there potential as well. My entire life I’ve felt I’ve underachieved and felt like I could do more if I didn’t have these anxiety issues, shame,etc
This is quote from dating essentials
“ In No More Mr. Nice Guy, I discuss the effects of “Toxic Shame” as it relates to the Nice Guy Syndrome. Toxic shame is the deeply held, unconscious belief that you are bad, defective, or unlovable. It is the result of the inaccurate internalization of life events from birth on.”


I think the label ‘Nice Guy’ is almost like a brand. We know what it’s referring to, so it works, but it’s actually not the most accurate label.

Because the opposite of a ‘Nice Guy’ isn’t a mean guy; it’s a guy at home in himself. That means that what we’re really talking about are guys who are not at home in ourselves.

We’ve already pretty much been around the block discussing these points in the posts up above; but this still seems like a pretty important point to restate. The label could be misleading to someone who doesn’t understand. The goal is to develop self-worth independent of the judgments of others, and to become more and more at home in and celebratory of your own experience. Basically, the goal is to enjoy proactively facing and living your life (the ups and downs, the pains and joys).

I think the ‘nice guy’ label is like a motivational thing. Because a lot of us guys are motivated to get moving when we think we have to beat some foe and not be wimpy. So, if it helps guys to get moving to better ourselves, I can abide the inaccuracy.


If you’re a nice guy, your not really nice…


The Nice Guy ™ brand is already being tainted by the recipients of said behaviour - women. When men already feel inadequate about being their masculine selves, here comes society to add more to the already unhelpful shame messages…

I prefer the term coined by Ross Rosenberg, self love deficit disorder. As unwieldy as it is, there’s no shame in admitting it, plus the solution is evident.


Emperor will make you an asshole. In a good self-loving and logical way. So that’s the way to go. Also I would recommend Primal Seduction for inner calmnes & it instills action taking regarding females.