Yep!
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I have experimented with this and still have some in the cupboard. I used to take it before a stressful event because it had a sedating / calming effect. If I took it daily for a while, I noticed a mood rebounding effect when I stopped. I’d feel agitated and kind of angry for a day or two before levelling out again.
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I find ashwagandha to be stimulating to me; not as much as caffeine, but I can’t take it after noon or so… Rhodiola is far better for me. I had good luck with kava for stress once, but the next time I had an anaphylactic reaction and my tongue and throat swelled up (due to whatever the carrier oil it was in, I believe) to the point where I was about to ask my wife to call 911… but it started to fade and I figured I would be ok. I haven’t touched kava since though.
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That’s pretty intense. I noticed too with KSM-66, if I up the dosage it can have a stimulating effect. I don’t have a lot of experience with notropics, I looked into it for a while before deciding it wasn’t worth spending the time and money experimenting with. I also tried 5-HTP a couple of times after reading how great it is, but I felt horrible on that stuff.
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5HTP makes me feel like GARBAGE. I can’t touch it… other stuff that boosts serotonin works fine though, so I’m not sure what’s up with that.
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Tesofensine update #2:
The appetite suppression has kicked in. Took 5 days, but it’s here. My meals have been identical the last 2 days to really gauge progress:
Breakfast is a 15oz coffee with 1.5 5bsp of butter, 1.5 tbsp C8 MCT oil, 2 TBSP of inulin prebiotic fiber, and about 1/4 cup of 18% cream. This is 8:45-9am.
I have a 2nd coffee around noon, same MCT, same cream, no fiber or butter.
Lunch is nominally 2pm for my 18/6 fasting schedule, but… it’s been creeping later. Yesterday my lunch was 3pm, and I was definitely feeling some hunger by then, but nothing too crazy.
Lunch shake:
- 1 scoop vanilla whey (29g protein)
- 1 scoop greens powder
- 1.5 tbsp MCT oil
- 2 tbsp inulin prebiotic fiber
- 2 tsp creatine
- 1/4 cup frozen blueberries… these really help mask the greens flavor…
- 650mL unsweetened almond milk
Yesterday I drank it and it was good. I finished it quite easily, and while I wasn’t hungry afterward, I could have eaten more. Just didn’t feel like a “need”.
Dinner was around 7pm, and consisted of 2 cups frozen mixed veggies cooked with 16 small grass-fed beef meatballs from Whole Foods, and a huge handful of mixed organic greens with some Primal Kitchen (keto-friendly) salad dressing on it.
Last night I devoured the dinner like I’d never seen food before.
That brings us to today.
I wasn’t hungry when I woke up, but that’s typical… I’ve been having only coffee for breakfast most days for probably 20 years now, and have been doing intermittent fasting for 4 years or so. Had my usual coffee at 8:40 then started work at 9.
I had my 2nd coffee around 11:30am, but more out of habit than anything else.
At 3:30 I thought “hmm… I should probably make some lunch I guess…” and made my shake. Here’s where it changed… yesterday I practically inhaled it… today? several times I noticed that there was still some left in my mug. It sat so long on my desk that it started to separate out… lol… I probably spent a good 30 mins sipping that, vs under 5 yesterday.
But the real change was dinner.
Identical dinner as yesterday, but tonight it was a SLOG.
I struggled to eat all of it. Took me 40+ mins, and I didn’t feel so great afterward. Like I’d force fed myself.
Granted I didn’t really do much today except sit at my desk… I’d planned to go for a walk with my daughter before dinner but our neighbor’s dog jumped up at her and grabbed her seaweed snacks right out of her hand, which really spooked her, so we went back home right away.
I’ve yet to remember to get any measurements first thing in the morning, so whenever I do… that should be interesting. I’m pretty sure I gained a bit since my last weigh-in…
And to keep this on the sub-focus, my stack is currently EF ST2/3, on a M/W/F schedule, every 4th week off.
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On the urging of my wife, I weighed in tonight just to see. This was ~10pm, so no uh… mass losses… 
since dinner. I expect it to be lower tomorrow.
Looking at the numbers… I actually did not gain anything… or I lost it in the last few days, which is possible. Either way, almost the same since my last numbers. Not bad.
79.9kg/176 lbs
13.5% body fat
22.4 BMI
11.9% subcutaneous fat
5% visceral fat
For anyone that hasn’t read this whole thing to see the starting metrics… I’m also 190cm/6’3".
Now that the tesofensine has kicked in, let’s see where it goes from here!
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Interesting log mate, I gave it a read. We are on a similar path, I’m getting back in shape. I started working out for 8 weeks and ate only between 12pm and 8pm. Then I switched to eating between 12pm and 7pm for the past 3 or so weeks. Next subliminal cycle, I’m going to adopt the infamous 18/6 intermittent fasting, eating only between 12pm and 6pm. That should get some fat loss happening.
I don’t take measurements or weigh myself but I take a progress picture every so often and I can see some results already. I started experimenting this week eating a low carbohydrate meal at midday, basically being meat, eggs and salad with some olive oil. I feel pretty good after that, that is until I eat something higher in carbohydrates at about 3-4pm which makes me feel bloated and tired. I don’t think I could do a ketogenic diet, but I am considering when doing meal preparation each morning, to make a second low carbohydrate meal and see how I feel eating those two meals first, before anything else.
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Very good video about Ashwagandha
I’m glad you survived, man! I was listening to a lecture (I think by Terrance McKenna). I think the speaker said that over long term use, kava can lead to scaly skin.
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There are several different ways to do this; I find 18/6 daily fasting to be the simplest as it’s a habit that I can easily get into and just do, without thinking about it. I know many people tout the benefits of alternate-day fasting, or 5 day eating and 2 day fasting, etc. but I like consistency. It does depend on what you’re eating though; I’ve heard some “health gurus” online say IF is all that’s needed and you can still eat pizza, burgers, etc but that has not been my experience. IF + clean keto/low-carb works well for me, IF + “normal” eating holds me at baseline at best, or even some unwanted gains.
I most definitely feel it when I eat carbs… I love pizza (I finally found a good place near here that has a really tasty gluten-free crust) and unless I am actively trying to lose fat, I generally consider it worth it once a month or so… and I just deal with feeling crappy after.
I feel better overall on low carb rather than strict keto, but I can’t deny how effective strict keto is (especially when eating at or just below my BMR) at stripping fat, even without much cardio. The weather is finally getting nice enough here to go out for some decent hikes, so I plan to ramp up my cardio substantially. I’m not saying I buy into the simplistic “calories in vs calories out” model as it is absolutely much more nuanced than that, but… the basic premise of increasing your energy expenditure while also managing your biochemistry (ie low-ish stable blood glucose, no insulin spikes, etc) for fat loss seems to be sound.
More importantly, though, I feel good when I go for a daily brisk 8-10K walk (about an hour, at my walking pace), so I do that as often as my schedule and weather permit.
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Lunchtime weigh-in… not the best time for a weigh-in as I’ve had 1 bp coffee so far today and am half done another one, but…
78.75 kg / 173.6 lbs
13.2% body fat
22 BMI
11.7% subcutaneous fat
5% visceral
Since.
Last.
Night.
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Yeh… I noticed the same thing… 
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There are 2 basic principles at play.
The first principle is that our bodies are adapted for survival, and physiologically it cannot tell the difference between intentional fasting, severe caloric restriction, and literal starvation. The main difference between full-on fasting and starvation, which I think many people who are unaware of what fasting is all about don’t understand, is the presence or lack of stress neurochemicals.
2 people might go for a day without eating, but there is a fundamental difference between someone fasting for intentional health benefits and someone who simply does not have food.
“I’m starving, but I know why I’m doing this, and there is a fridge full of food in the next room” is VERY different than “I’m starving, and I don’t know when I’ll be able to have food next.”
The latter is scary, but that is what our bodies are adapted for. Fear and stress raise cortisol, which promotes fat storage and makes the body hold on to what it has left, because in the situation of a caloric deficit… as far as the brain knows, the body is starving and if it doesn’t conserve fat, it will DIE.
The related part of this is known as metabolic adaptation. Meaning, the body gets more efficient at doing something when there is decreased energy. As your caloric intake goes down, your BMR (basal metabolic rate) will go down as well. If you’ve ever felt cold while on a diet, this is why…
Meaning, you can walk for hours on a treadmill to lose fat, but it gets less and less effective over time. Same thing with caloric deficits… if you’re eating like a rabbit and slogging away on a treadmill and you feel MISERABLE, that will very effectively tell your body something is wrong, and it needs to hold onto as much energy as it can until things are ok again.
The second principle is that fat storage is driven by insulin. If you are an extreme athlete like Michael Phelps, then yes, you need constant energy input… because it’s being used. For someone like him, he will need constant glycogen replenishment for his muscles… that’s where the energy is going, NOT to fat storage. Thermal regulation too, as swimming pools are cooler than body temp, and some energy is expended by brown fat to keep the body at its normal temperature.
If you are in a caloric deficit but you’re eating foods that cause insulin spikes (carbs or excessive protein at once) or you’re eating so often your insulin never has a chance to drop back down, it will be nigh impossible to burn fat.
Now imagine you’re eating like a rabbit, are stressed out and unhappy about it, and when you do eat something, you eat a nice “healthy” bit of fruit, or some pasta, which spikes your blood sugar (and thus your insulin)… how easy is it going to be to burn fat?
Not very.
So, can you just compress your eating window and still lose fat while eating pizza and burgers and cookies? IF you’re working out like an olympic athlete maybe, but for the other 99.99% of us? NO…
…after writing all this do I want some goddamn pizza??
YES lol.
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Thanks for the information, it made sense to me.
Do you think cheat days, or overeating days, have a positive role in fat loss? Do you think these types of days can help increase metabolism and promote fat loss?
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You’re welcome!
I think refeed days, specifically carb refeed days if you’re doing keto or low-carb, are definitely beneficial if you are also doing caloric restriction OR are exercising enough to drive yourself into a deficit over your intake. This helps show the body that “it’s ok, there is enough food, don’t worry.” so it doesn’t go into conservation mode. I do highly recommend coordinating those days with some heavy exercise to help offset some of the impact of it.
I think they’re also helpful psychologically, so you don’t feel too deprived of certain foods for too long, although this is a very slippery slope, and I personally stayed away from any cheat meals until I saw some real progress, otherwise I thought it would be far too easy for my brain to say “why not order in pizza tonight?? not like we’ve lost any weight yet, so we’re not really sliding back…”
Even so, when I first started this journey in 2019, a cheat meal was whatever I wanted… half a pizza from Pizza Hut? sure. a Blizzard from Dairy Queen? no prob… etc.
The problem is, it slowed my progress… it made me feel crappy, and in general… it just wasn’t worth it. I had terrible insulin sensitivity, I was not keto adapted AT ALL, and it just didn’t work. So I went back to strict eating for a while, and when I decided I could handle it better, I added them back in but more intelligently this time.
After that, cheat meals were just the addition of some extra carbs… maybe a baked yam potato drenched in butter added to whatever else I was having.
Now, I can switch back and forth easily enough that I doubt I’d have a problem having some pizza, etc. But I wouldn’t do that regularly… once a month or so… otherwise? yam or rice, with tons of butter…
Or an apple sliced into thin wedges, with some smoked gouda on it… yum.
As for boosting metabolism this way, I question that. All doing that ever did for me was make me feel sluggish and crappy… it left me wanting to sit on the couch, which is how I got fat in the first place. Well, that and an ex-gf from waaaay back who never wanted to eat anything but pasta, but anyway…
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I decided to change up my meal plan a bit yesterday, both to see how it affected me and because I wanted a change.
Lunch was 4 eggs with some avocado oil instead of a protein shake, and I changed up my dinner too:
1 baked chicken breast, with 2 tbsp of low-sugar salsa + some butter
1 bag of frozen broccoli
1 small can of black beans
big handful of mixed greens with a few cherry tomatoes, and some Primal Kitchen salad dressing
tooooooo much food. I was so stuffed I could barely drink my sleepy time tea even 3 hours later.
And, although my numbers were down again today, it wasn’t by much.
78.65kg / 173.4 lbs (edit: 78.4 / 172.9…)
No change for any other metrics.
So… I felt better overall, but it had less effect re: fat loss. Too many carbs in the beans? maybe… next time I’ll do the same amount of broccoli and half the beans, to see how that works.
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Me, too. But for me, if I do that too much, even with IF, I start to pack on fat. 
???
Same… I did a bunch of yardwork on sunday, tore apart an old fire pit and moved about half a yard of dirt, to get ready for a new raised bed garden. I was so hungry when I finished that I ate a blueberry muffin that my wife had baked. Then I ate dinner… then yesterday I had another one of the muffins… same meal plan otherwise, and definitely in a caloric deficit… yet somehow, back up 400g. Definitely some of that is water, but still not what I wanted to see.
There is salsa that has sugar in it! I don’t even mean the fancy mango salsa stuff… I mean regular tomatoes and peppers and onions salsa… I looked at 4 or 5 until I found one with the lowest total sugars. It seemed weird to me too. lol.
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