Permanent Results

How long does it before results are permanent? Let’s suppose this question is for a sub working on changing personality/manifestation abilities in some way, such as Emperor/Khan ST4/Alchemist ST4 (as opposed to the breakdown/clearing type subs).

I know that people are of course susceptible to influences from life that can change them. But I am of course looking for an answer that is assuming that the user isn’t subject to another major influence (subliminal-like or otherwise) after that user has spent hundreds of hours listening to/taking action based on the subliminal.


Wow that’s a very complex subject. It depends partially in how much your belief system has changed. Our beliefs are what causes us to do the actions that we do. And why we do certain things. It’s not completely subconscious.

It’s also partly conscious that’s why you hear somewhere on sub club website where they mention something like they like to work on both conscious and subconscious parts of the mind. Might be with regard to their superchargers.

When beliefs are changed consciously you can control the outcome of your actions and get the results you need. Monitor your beliefs when you feel certain emotions. Try to dig down and see what beliefs are causing the emotions and try to change them consciously and let the subs creat the changes subconsciously. This is in line with taking action.

As i remember @DarkPhilosopher said somewhere something like everything is permanent if you allow it to be. Information doesn’t disappear it just gets overwritten.

I don’t think any change can be forced on a person without him allowing the change to happen.

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Glad I’ll be using Superchargers to align my conscious with my upcoming subconscious programming then.

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I love this, people using my name like that. “Yeah, President Trump is pregnant with twins. DarkPhilosopher said that somewhere.”

Some of the older cities in the world have a road system that appears to make no sense. Until you look back a long time and you realize that before there were roads, cattle and beasts of burden traveled from place to place, always choosing the route of least resistance. Human beings then traveled in that same path because it was already nice and flattened. Slowly they became dirt roads, then cobbled and finally paved roads. But it all started because a herd of animals chose to walk the most efficient route.

Your subconscious patterns are like that. following the road most traveled. Nothing gets overwritten, but if there’s a choice between behaviors A & B, and behavior A has been used more, it is the path of least resistance. And so that’s the one that keeps happening. Unless you consciously force yourself to take behavior B often enough that it becomes the most traveled road instead.

I love the rocket launching into space analogy.

In order for you to change, you need to spend a ludicrous amount of fuel to keep walking that new route, every single day.

As you build momentum, it becomes easier. But the other road still pulls at you like gravity. This new road is rough and exhausting, the other one so smooth and easy. It’s easier to fall back into the old behavior. More comfortable. Why do you keep fighting it?

Then you finally get to that magical point at the top of the roller-coaster mountain, moments before the fall, where all it takes to keep traveling the new road is a gentle daily reminder. You can still fall back to old behavior if you don’t watch out, but the new road is no longer exhausting to travel.

And then finally you have reached escape velocity. The point where it takes almost no effort to stay on the new road. The more you travel it, the easier it becomes to do so. You stop having to think about it. The old road may still be there, but it is now overgrown with weeds.

How long does it take for the behavior installed by the subliminals to become permanent? We haven’t mapped your mental geography, so there’s no way to know. It all depends on how rough the terrain in your mind is, how comfortable the “old” road, how well you sleep and how much energy it takes every day to keep on the right path. But if you travel the new road often enough, it’ll get easier and easier.

This has been another post by DarkPhilosopher for the SubClub Insider blog.


@DarkPhilosopher Ahh here it is. :shushing_face: :grinning:

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Couldn’t you have quoted me before I spent an hour composing my answer? :wink:

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Lol didn’t know where it was. Plus this version is better.

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I feel like there are a few different metrics or perspectives that could be used to discuss this question of so-called ‘permanence’.

Two in particular:

  1. Internalizing a specific new behavior pattern (learning)

  2. Being able to continually learn and integrate new behaviors in general (meta-learning)

I think that #1 is easier to make permanent.

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Permanence in this aspect is what I have in mind

I do think subliminal club subs results are pretty much permanent. Just your focus shifts consciously so that you don’t notice how you behave differently…

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Yea, I’ve definitely fallen into this trap. Journaling helps to look back and notice that things were actually different before.

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Thanks for this information. A bit cliche to add this little comment here, but I don’t want to seem like I am appropriating you. Just wondering something specifically about Khan ST1 and if it is worth keeping permanently. I have a the classic reconcilliation, an aversion (Pain avoidance) to wanting to start it again.

I will just conceptualize it here,

Death drive, directed towards the self as a defense mechanism against the possiblity of future pain, a function of survival during adversity. Freud’s words to generalize the energy is " aggression, repetition compulsion, and self-destructiveness."

As I was browsing this I came across the link for Thanatos, which has additions to this which are or are not additions/exclusions. Geras (Old Age), Oizys (Suffering), Moros (Doom), Apate (Deception), Momus (Blame), Eris (Strife), Nemesis (Retribution). Again, Death drive directed towards the self is my topic.

To summarize it, would be negative energy transmutation. My issue is I do not want to continue using ST1 if I am pointlessly cycling between optimistic negative energy transmutation and false optimism, and the issue caused by the rebounding between these two states.

I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on this. Thanks in advance.

The final results of the subliminals have permanence,not the processes by which they create that result. I.E when no longer running regeneration, the mechanism of trauma, past incidents popping up will no longer happen, but whatever healing had happened , will stay. Emperor, the insane voice and drive and pull towards solo activity will no longer be there necessarily, but someone who is highly driven and able to work alone will. For Khan Stage 1 / I AM, the mechanism of questioning, and breakdown of self, will no longer be there but whatever result from that ‘cleansing, purge’ and elimination of programming that doesn’t serve you, will.

The stage is designed so you know when to move.

If what your saying is that every time you think your done going through a cycle of breakdown and reconstruction and things are leveling out it starts up again?

And your wondering if there is a resolution of these oscillating states as an indicator to move on or the will continue indefinitely as a result of the subs mechanism itself?

Again, you may not necessarily reach a permanent state of either but will know it is time to move on.

can you distinguish if your pain avoidance is indeed reconciliation or simply the recognition innately that it is time to move on?

Looking at the khane stage 1 journals many moved on after a month or less regardless, or in the more detailed cases, there was indeed a leveling out of sorts and a feeling full of stage 1

AMASHThe Wise Wizard

Jun '19

I feel I had enough Khan ST1. As if I am saturated, filled, almost that I had “enough”.

So it feels for me that the right thing to do is to move to Khan ST2, Khan Total Reprogramming on the first day of the month.

So that would be a complete 30 days of Khan ST1 (I will finish Sunday as my final day).

It’s exciting. I might revisit Khan ST1 in the future. But for now, Khan ST2 is calling my name.

A part of me knows deeply it is the right time to move there. So that is what I am listening to. It’s not some logical plan, it is an inner knowing.

AMASHThe Wise Wizard

Jun '19


Looking to see how many hours you got before you got the complete feeling.

I kept track. I started getting the feeling at 400 hours, but it got stronger and stronger, and now that I reached 500 hours of ST1, I feel 1000% sure it is time to move on to Stage 2.


When you ran the 30 days of ST1, did you do it for 50% of the day at least? Did you always listen overnight too?

I did it 100% of the days, no days off, for a minimum of 15h a day, often 18h or more.

In the beginning, it felt like hell. People were telling me to take breaks. But I had a similar experience with Primal, so I pushed through it, and around 150 of listening to Khan ST1, it became completely comfortable. The only “pain” was from the emotional healing, a bit of depression and anti-social feelings but those were happening in waves.

From feeling confident and on top of the world, to depressed and in tears, in waves that came and went.

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Thanks for the response. I do not experience any reconciliation during or periods between listening, the program or whatever actually fits my personality. I remember some references that this stage can be freeing to some, and this is what I feel as well.

My issue is I accidentally stopped listening and then I had a complete breakdown, similar to a rubber band. My negative energy completely dissipated and was basically left with nothing, it felt both liberating and completely devastating, as well as simply showing me what I am missing. I also know that this will not help me, Since I do not know where to learn to fix it intellectually.

That is the gist of it… and again thanks for the post, I will review it later if I remember.

I purchased a book I will research on this topic, it is from The Seminar of Jacques Lacan: The Four Fundamental Concepts of Psychoanalysis. I am going to try and understand this concept I was referencing, the hypothesis is all drives have some part of one basic drive.

Thanks again.


This is very interesting
This is why I say Khan STage 1/ I AM speeds up and slows down results.
It creates a freedom, and a fertile ground for other subs, which can speed up results
but takes away the identity and constructs that accumulate day to day consciously that seem to build momentum-in my experience at least.

so what was the death instinct and fall optimism in relation to you?
The total freedom you felt at the stage vs. the being left with nothing?

Seems scary :fearful: I just orderer I am terminus…

I Am has given me a great amount of benefits in my own Custom. It made me questions me beliefs, made me feel new and refreshed in the present – no more thinking about the past or future, broke down negative habits, etc. Essentially it paved the way for rapid and easy development regarding my Custom.

However I did have some negative emotions from time to time but nothing depressing. You’re certainly good to go if you have some feel-good modules in your Custom. It has an interesting effect where you completely lose sight of who you’ve been in the past, which is kind of fascinating.

Good luck!


Yeah, well I planned to run Sanguine Ultima when I feel too sad! I know it will have positive benefits with running it, I’m just scared because of my only experience with KhanSt1 which crushed me. I am running it with emperor to get the “tough skin” effect emperor gives you!

I’m certain it won’t have that kind of an effect on you, Khans healing is most probably way more pronounced. Most people also run it solo, which can only make it worse.

Use Sanguine Ultima but also Rebirth Ultima, both of them will suit you well.


Thank you, it really reassure me :relieved: