Main Idea Thread: Heartsong

Roadmap
#33

I think I finally understand why Heartsong is sending me into full recon healing mode:

It is because my subconscious mind projects its own understanding of an ideal partner into what needs to be manifested. And in almost all cases that ideal partner is however an unconscious Anima projection (Anima / Animus concept as per Carl Jung).

So the subconscious mind, when it tries to execute the script is faced with this unconscious Anima projection that is going on and that is not integrated and not fully reconciled with the conscious mind.

According to Jung, this Anima must first be fully integrated by making it conscious. So reconciliation with the conscious mind is a necessary step in integrating this Anima and letting go of those projected illusions of an ideal partner.

Until it becomes conscious, the mind will project the ideal traits of the ideal woman (or man), also all the assumed needs that an ideal partner would cover, onto people in the outside world, i.e. creating its own illusions, which then clash with observed reality and with what the conscious mind actually considers to be an ideal partner and how those needs are supposed to be fullfilled.

Therefore, an updated version, in order to successfully manifest more “soulmates” needs to somehow fully integrate the Anima / Animus.
Once that is successfully done, and one no longer projects ideal traits onto people nor personal needs, I think the manifestation scripting should have no difficulties of being executed as intended.

For me personally, I think this is the main reason why Heartsong is sending me into full recon mode at the deepest levels of my being.

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#34

I’ll give you my take on it based on the run so far. While I’m sure the improved ZPU build and the nervous system scripting makes a big difference, the main thing that stands out to me is the way the wu-wei concept is expressed in the script, along the lines of returning to wholeness (the uncarved block, etc).

There’s also an aspect of how that interacts with events in the outside world. When I was doing my reading/research into Zhineng Qigong and it’s Hunyuan Entirety Theory, I came across this concept which explained a hell of alot: hunhua, which means “to merge and transform”. It has to do with where two or more things that are complete in their own right (entireties) are merging or interacting, and as a result transforming one another. Hunyuan Qi itself is said to be formed by the hunhua of material, energy and information.

So without confusing things with terminology, there’s this idea that in the process of “becoming whole” the different parts are interacting, merging and influencing/transforming one another on that journey to becoming a unity, and it is feeling and working with this sense of wholeness and transformation that the healing is occurring (what I was calling the Qigong state, where you can feel the body acting as a single unit). I’m sure you can see how applying these kinds of ideas to relationships could be very helpful in “universalising” things :slight_smile:

Don’t know how useful that’s going to be, but in the spirit of putting things out into the void, there it is :alembic: :alien: :unicorn:

Edit: maybe worth adding that the qualities of self-acceptance so on cultivated in Reforged (ie accepting what is whether or not you are trying to change it, and radical self honesty) probably helps with the process. Without accepting what is seen the unity is unable to be sensed properly and transformation takes longer. Peace seems to have that too.

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#35

Great explanation and list of features, i like it as well.

#36

Nothing against your ideas, I actually like them. When I was reading them I couldnt stop thinking, thats exactly what a narcisist will make you feel/believe.

Idealization / Love-Bombing Phase

They shower you with intense attention, flattery, mirroring of your interests/values, constant contact, gifts, future-talk (“soulmate,” “I’ve never felt this way,” “we’re perfect together”), and grand gestures.

You often feel:

  • Uniquely seen, understood, desired, and special—like the center of their universe
  • Euphoric, addicted to the high, as if you’ve finally found “the one”
  • Safe, valued, and chosen in a way that feels almost too perfect

You come to believe the relationship is extraordinary, that they truly get you, and that this intensity is genuine love or destiny. The pace is usually accelerated.

They do it cause it simply works quite well and easily, its worth asking ourselves why is that the case. Are we so starved to feel that way that at the first opportinity we jump into it, no questions asked?
Whats the wound that they feed on?

And a lot of us as a way to cope with those feelings, we really want to believe that some idealized version of others is real, it has to be real so i can prove my worth, right? and ended up believing our own idealizations or the image the other person (Narcissist) intentionally project.

Yes, that would be great, specially if its targeted at worthiness, acceptance and belonging.

Well this kinda make Heartsong a healing title, but maybe with PEACE style of healing is doable… who knows.

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#37

Here’s a question, should this be limited to romantic relationships? Some of the most fulfilling, intimate and transcendent relationships I had were platonic at the core. Hell, losing my best friend of 15 years or being in no contact with my current best friend hurt more than losing any partner.

#38

I think thats covered by Brotherhood

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#39

Kinda sorta? Though it isn’t necessarily universal.

The soulmate concept is so loaded, I’m in favour of moving away from the name

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#40

That’s literally the whole point of the title not sleeping around or friendships but finding a soul reflected parthner

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#41

I didn’t mention anything about sleeping around?

I was speaking more about how loaded the term “soulmate” and what that entitles. As Saint said, we all have a different interpretation of a soulmate, for me that doesn’t limit it to a romantic partner.

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#42

Seems most people misunderstand the concept of a SOULmate, its not a romantic heartmate, we didnt come here into this world as a heart, we came as a soul into physical existence.
A soulmate is a perfect reflection of our soul, a contract made before coming into this world,a feeling of fate and destiny like someone described earlier, as if God, source or whatever made us specifically for each other.

I have heard from spiritual masters that most have one or maybe 2 to 3 soulmates in a lifetime. Often the greatest obstacle is timing and being in the right place and mindset and readiness in our journey for it to sync with another soul.
Its a relationship with someone who recognises your soul whos gaze pierces through all the masks you wear, to see the real you, its the most profound intense resonance and alignment on a deepest level of your being, a charged electricity seeking its perfect match.

If it the subliminal can make you transmit your unique energy signature throughout the whole globe and connect to the energy of the soulmate that matches that energy signature that would be ideal so you can seek each other out through synchronicity of meeting.

#43

In this case i meant a platonic friendship which is much different than a soulmate, maybe soul tribe concept is what you mean

#44

Fair enough…It’s weird that you just to "not sleeping around’ when other people are pushing for this to support poly lifestyles. But okay…

#45

I understand the concept pretty well and its loaded with spiritual and religious presuppositions, a whole belief system. Thats the main reason I do not like it and I think there are a lot of people here who doesnt either.
All the titles in Subclub are free of belief systems, why should this one be the exception? As Saint has stated many times, the sub should work for everybody and for that to be the case it cant requiere for a user to adopt any single belief system, it doesnt matter if someone chooses to believe that as the only truth possible in the universe.

You believe in soulmates? Great! Heartsong adapts to you. You dont believe in soulmates? Great! Heartsong adapts to you too.

Edit: We are not discussing how to adapt/change the concept of soulmates, the point is to move Heartsong somewhere else. As @Malkuth said, its called HEARTSong and not SoulSong.

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#46

To quote Saint

Now, what I need people to understand is that even if they don’t believe in this concept, those who do will express the script differently from them. Those who have a different idea of what a “soulmate” is will express the script in their own way. And it is not the goal of ZPU to change the underlying belief toward another ideal, but rather to honor the individual’s beliefs in a way that helps them grow

Moving along, WDB has a lot of what I’d want from a “heart” title: Deep effortless connective, the anticipant before a kiss, that big cinematic feel, even a little slow burn.

#47

If you dilute the concept too much then it just becomes another wanted, love bomb flavour just like people want endless emperor flavours. The concept is based around SOULmates not heart romance which can be achieved by many subs already.
It presupposes the yearning of a soul to manifest its mate, its reflection, not the heart which is a cog in the process that originates and starts from the soul. If vision of the goal is lost then it’s just another flavour of wanted.

#48

Let’s settle down, folks. There’s no need to worry about things be diluted. Saint already has an idea, he’s just opening the door to suggestions.

#49

Thats quite a strawman.

Anyways, Im not interested in debating what a soulmate is or whether if they are real or not. I dont care really, “To each their own”.

What im really interested is in this Saint quote…

Now, what I need people to understand is that even if they don’t believe in this concept, those who do will express the script differently from them. Those who have a different idea of what a “soulmate” is will express the script in their own way. And it is not the goal of ZPU to change the underlying belief toward another ideal, but rather to honor the individual’s beliefs in a way that helps them grow.

Also helping as I can in making Heartsong a great and unique product, as I said at the begining, not a flavor of anything.

Of course you have your opinions as I have my own, we are sharing ideas to make Hearstong better for everybody, not trying to fit the product to what someone believes.

Edit: My point is that it would be great if Heartsong is a title that can help in building the kind of relationship, people refer to as “Soulmates”, instead of waiting to find that kind of person.
Even if you find that kind of person, both will have to work for the relationship to be that way, is not just going to happen just because you are soulmates.
For those who dont relate to the concept and its background, it will still be useful to have a working frame to achieve that sepecial kind of bond.

In the end if you believe in that frame, you will be satisfied that you found who you where looking for and will work to make it last, if you dont believe in that frame, you will be satisfied that you are building that kind of relationship it with someone special, because both of you recognized the connection and the potential to build something solid and pleasurable,

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#50

I think where this topic gets tricky, and potentially causes a lot of recon for people, is that:

Love is the most beautiful feeling a human can experience naturally, yet it can also cause the worst mental/emotional pain of someone’s life.

Think of unrequited love. Or, meeting the love of your life, starting a wonderful relationship, getting completely immersed in loving them, and then tragedy strikes - they leave you, life gets in the way, etc. Or, you’ve been with your perfect partner for years, and then suddenly they stop loving you…

There’s equal potential for both extreme joy and extreme sorrow in a connection of that magnitude.

True love requires immense surrender, including surrendering to the possibility that you might be badly hurt. It’s only by plunging into it and taking that risk can you experience the full depth of a “soulmate” type of bond.

I think for many of us, whether from past trauma or simply realizing the gravity of this risk, there are deep seated fears and unconscious blockages connected to the possibility of things going wrong.

The hardest part is accepting that love can turn on you at anytime. The feeling of wholeness and ecstasy can be suddenly thrown out the window, and replaced by self doubt, despair and depression. So I think if Heartsong ZPU can provide scripting to address these fears, and prepare the user to accept all the possibilities of what a deep connection like that may entail, that would help address some of the recon that’s been reported in previous versions.

@SaintSovereign

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#51

This is the problem I mentioned in my post earlier. Not everyone believes this. Regardless of the actual truth of the situation, or whatever higher processes are involved, at the practical level – the here and the now – the held beliefs of the individual will affect the expression of the script. If we were to base Heartsong around this viewpoint, the large majority would reject the script and go into recon. It must be simplified and universalized while still remaining useful.

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#52

What would the day to day dynamic of someone who DOES believe in a soulmate look like when it comes to relationships dynamics and values and which of those are universal?

  • communication to the deepest soul level
  • a shared vision that involves being together forever and accomplishing something together (financial, social, spiritual, familial, etc)
  • a soulmate shouldn’t just be a relationship that is good, a soulmate should fit perfectly into a life that is good, and even make life feel like it’s complete, but that comes from within which is why I can’t make a heartsong idea post without mentioning that the sense of “completeness” in life should be able to be cultivated single or coupled
  • great passionate connected sex
  • someone who is your ultimate confidant, you tel the secrets you never told anyone, and that person cherishes your secrets for you, normalizes you, makes you feel not weird (again, this can be done without a partner)
  • can make decisions (together/alone)
  • lack of codependency, WANTING each other very much without getting into the scarcity of NEEDING each other, every day is a choice
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