Main Disc. Thread - Quintessence: Zero Point (Experimental) (Part 2)

[TheSunlightCaller]

@GoldenTiger

Check this out, you can even take the test for fun

Thanks, I took this test before and nothing has changed.

[Malkuth]

@MajorVic

My opinion about permanency of results: In this fast changing world and our lives created by our conciousnes will never be static.

Yes. Agree.

Also, we have a tendency to ‘move the goalposts’ as we continue to grow and make progress in life.

So we may have made a great deal of objective (and possibly even permanent/semi-permanent) growth and change, but subjectively we may ignore the change and continue to describe ourselves in the old, habitual ways.

It’s not because we’re idiots. Habit is comfortable. And change can feel or be scary and destabilizing. Fortunately, I think the subs help with that. Not just with changes, but with developing the self-awareness to recognize changes.

So Saint said:

@SaintSovereign

You need the self awareness to see when changes are occurring. You need to journal and analyze them.

And I think that subtly and gently over time, working with the subs also helps to cultivate that type of awareness. Journaling, reflecting, communicating with others, and so on are other key self-awareness supports.

Meta-awareness/meta-cognition:

[Budewr]

@MadaraUchiha

and the more people refuse to follow the rules the more reluctant the creators will be to release the best technology in the future which hurts everyone.

What is that about “its gonna hurt everyone”

Its a question, also if i tried experimenting i would say so. Experimenting is fine

And honestly you cannot stop people from screwing around the listening pattern. Its just life, things sometimes go sideways so its impossible to make everyone follow the instructions and make them “not hurt everyone”

[Budewr]

@SaintSovereign

I’m about to crack down on this, hard. If you haven’t been with us for a certain amount of time, experimentation isn’t going to be allowed on the forum.

How is that? Whats the point of that?
How is someone experimenting or asking a question is gonna hurt anyone by any means?

Its a question.

[Budewr]

@AlexanderGraves

but why do you even ask that question?

Why not? The forum is becoming very weird lately

Asking questions for others experiences about loops comes out as in “youre hurting everyone with experimenting and asking “ which is a weird thing i must say feels like all that covid bs lol

Thanks alex.

[AlexanderGraves]

@MajorVic

BUT results from healing subs should be permanent.

This.

Removing trauma is permanent. It has to.

The pain only permanent for you right now because you can’t let go of it. Emotionally involved.

If you let them go back to source , it’s done.

Well said

Healing subs are definitely the most permanent.

This is why I currently run shadow work and baseline subs. To come back to my nature before I put new stuff in.

[Beowulf]

I think it’s because it seems you keep looking for ways to skirt the recommendations and you don’t quite have the baseline to actually experiment meaningfully - it’s not really personal since some other forum members have this tendency too, hence his response. It’s best to run according to the guidelines for at least a few months and then change your listening schedule. Also, if someone is interested in experimentation, they will also take into account of experimenting with decreasing loop counts per week. True experimentation involves establishing a baseline, then going with both increasing and decreasing number of loops - as well as increasing and decreasing the number of rest days. If it constantly leans more towards increasing loop counts, then some introspection is in place such as :-

1. Am I too impatient for results?
2. Am I actually in reconciliation?
3. Is it possible that it may be more beneficial to experiment with lower loops and more rest days?
4. What are the experiences of those who have experimented with lower loops and more rest days?
5. Am I latching on to an exception of the rule of someone succeeding with more loops at the expense of those with less loops to justify my hidden recon?

And so on. Hence, the importance of journalling which is probably the most underrated aspect of noticing and improving results. Being consciously aware of unconscious tendencies allows one to integrate the effects of subliminals that occur on an unconscious level, both in input and execution.

Also when @AlexanderGraves says

@AlexanderGraves

but why do you even ask that question?

It’s essentially a hint to what he’s actually saying (or at least, one can meaningfully interpret it in a deeper manner useful to us), which is “What conscious/unconscious tendencies lead you to ask a question whose answer would not be that beneficial to you at this moment?”

[Chase]

@Beowulf

if someone is interested in experimentation, they will also take into account of experimenting with decreasing loop counts per week. True experimentation involves establishing a baseline, then going with both increasing and decreasing number of loops - as well as increasing and decreasing the number of rest days.

That’s a very good point, and it revealed my blindspot. Many, including myself, tend to have selective focus by filtering or overlooking things that don’t fit our view or belief, and pay attention to things that fit.

There are posts from members and Saint himself suggested that less may be better, and I for one just didn’t pay attention to it. On the other hand, there is a post about a person had great external results; he listened to 6 loops on the days he had those results, and it is what I remember.

For the past cycles I had experimented listening to 3 loops here and there, yet I always took 7 rest days instead of 5. This cycle I am gonna experiment one on day and two off days with 5 rest days in the end, and see how it goes.

[FireDragon]

wasnt there a posting from saint that 3 rest days are enough?
Didnt find it with the search function atm.

[FireDragon]

Found it:

@SaintSovereign

Also seeing evidence that washouts only need three days instead of five. Do not switch yet, as I need more confirmation.

Any news about the three days?

[Chase]

Iirc the three rest days at the end is for those who listen one on day two off days (instead of one on one off) during the 21-day cycle.

Found it.

Reconciliation Reduction Pattern

If you’re experiencing a lot of reconciliation on Zero Point powered titles, first, try doubling up on rest days. That means, instead of taking one rest day in-between listening days, do two back-to-back…

If you’re using this pattern, you’ll still need to take a washout period after 21 days, but you can shorten it to three days instead of five…

Once the relentless reconciliation has decreased in frequency, try the appropriate non-experimental listening pattern for your stack again.

[FireDragon]

Thanks for answering

[MadaraUchiha]

@Budewr

What is that about “its gonna hurt everyone”

the creators currently have a 7 min version of all products that they are NOT releasing because of people like you.

so yes you absolutely are hurting everyone here with this type of behavior.

[MadaraUchiha]

is anyone else surprised that the executive still has not come out?

my understanding is that commander and GLM are similar size to the executive so im wondering why those products have been released but not the executive.

[MajorVic]

True dude. What subs you are curently listening to?

[Matrix]

Don’t you gentlemen think that you are trying too hard to educate @Budewr on experimentation? I think @SaintSovereign sir gave a good explanation already? Maybe he is just tired of not getting the desired effects he wants from a sub. I follow his journal he is consistent with subs(+following guidelines) and asking a question on experimentation is fine ig. He didn’t experimented and spread rumors like not getting results…
Huh!

[Alphamale]

rich crypto is updated

[Lion]

@Alphamale - yes it is:

@Lion

@Hoppa

@Lion

RICH Crypto is not yet updated

I’ve listened to RICH Crypto ZP for a couple of times already this week.

Are you talking about some ZP → ZP upgrade?

@Hoppa - was talking about ZP. Did a check in my Downloads and I stand corrected:

I first looked for the RICH Crypto ZP thread which I didn’t find so based my judgement on that.

@Anako, @Avengers68 - only 7 more titles left to be updated to ZP.

[Alphamale]

the logic: first experiment on the guidelines and after some reasonable amount of time you can experiment on yourself

[AlexanderGraves]

I was on CFW and minds eye.

I will soon start EoG stage 1 and primal.