Liminality custom Qv2

[Malkuth]

Another thought:

Treat it as a creative puzzle.

What if you had to write a story, in actions as well as in words, and the first sentence had to be — was fully supposed and destined to be — exactly everything that you’ve written above in your journals, exactly everything that you’ve started from.

What is a story of success that has this as the first sentence?

Or

What is a plan for attaining all that I want that uses all that I am right now?

No need to answer the question just yet, simply ask it.

EDIT:

What is a pathway to success that uses my nature instead of fighting against it?

If you have to struggle with something, why not let it be this?

[Fractal_Explorer]

I don’t think you need to fix any of the things you’re trying to fix. I think you just need to harness them into an overall system.

I’m 90% sure something about my astrological chart would explain why this has been the dominant idea in my head for years now. But yeah, you’re right. It’s a lesson I haven’t been able to drive into my head deep enough. The fact that I don’t need to be 100% healed and ok to experience and enjoy life. Yet I always default to that primary way of thinking when it comes to almost everything in my life.

I hope this hits in some way. If not, I trust you to do what’s necessary. (shakily hands over the pistol).

Lol it did. I need some more “fuck this shit” energy in my life. I’ve lived underneath a magnifying glass for all my life and it’s just been suffocating. The most frustrating thing is I’m doing it to myself, I don’t need to do it but I do criticize every little aspect of myself.

A whole bunch of people are back in the office at work and my social anxiety has kicked in and it just pissed me off. Because now my life feels more difficult than it has to be. And that’s been getting to me this past week. I’ve been trying to squash that for years and when it still shows up I just want to rage quit. But I know part of the issue is I put too much stock in what it means as a person. That anxiety shouldn’t hold as much weight as it does tied to my overall concept of myself. But that’s the type of bullshit from my own mind I’m fed up with. It’s just like, fucking enough where are we going with this? What purpose does it serve?

Fuck this thing up, brother.

Don’t stop fighting.

You are kick-ass. You’re smart. Creative. You build mountains and then you conquer those mountains.

That’s what you’ve been doing. You’ve just been doing it internally.

You’re building what you need to build.

Okay. I’ll stop and calm down. The froth is practically flying out of the screen. (Getting ready to hike.)

But I hope you get some of the point.

Appreciate the support. I got the energy of all this and it’s interesting how it comes across now with the recent changes in your own life. It’s good, more fire to it. Not just trying to bargain with current circumstances.

[Fractal_Explorer]

Thinking more about my journey with AM. Compassion and forgiveness can be just as much of a vice as judgement and anger. I’m at a point where I’m acknowledging that these things are nice in texts, theory, overarching idealists morals, but in practice they’ll cause more harm than good for me. Maybe that’s because I don’t know what real compassion or forgiveness is, it’s definitely not what I’ve been doing for most my life which is trying to be empathetic to the needs of others and then getting stomped on and saying it’s ok.

So yeah. You can’t use spirituality to bypass the process of growing a spine. I’m done listening to the shoulds. Just going to focus on what works in my immediate reality. Moving towards the uncomfortable now instead and disregarding the inner voice inside of my head that wants to insist I have to be some saint on Earth. Because really if that was my path I probably would have started out on the opposite spectrum being a dick and needing to learn to respect people. But that’s not how it went for most of my life.

[Athanaxos]

Just throwing this out there… are you familiar with No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover? Reading it really helped me put my self-sacrificing-behavior (and it’s inherent toxicity) into perspective, and where it all came from. Might be something in there that you’ll find useful

[Fractal_Explorer]

This is embarrassing but I tried to read it years ago and got upset. Probably because I felt like I was being called out and because I always had a mentality of “why should I break my back trying to change? Why can’t people just be kind in general?” Probably a healthy dose of fear in there too because it involves more confrontation which I’ve always sucked at.

I’ll pick it up again. But if I’m remembering right a lot of it was centered around toxic shame? I try to avoid overly wordy books nowadays. I feel like the whole nice guy thing isnt a lack of awareness or understanding on my part, but just a difficult time carrying out the actions I need to do. So I’m never sure if a book will help or just serve as a cheap dopamine high.

[Athanaxos]

Yeah I hear you mate. Had I tried to read it some time ago I would have burned the book… with planet-exterminating grade lazors. But I guess now I was more receptible for the message… And regarding toxic shame yeah, the idea is that one’s self-sacrifice ie being a “nice guy” is a survival mechanism… in that in order to gain other people’s favor (so that you can “survive”) you sacrifice your personal power and ultimately the control of your life, by overly adhering to other people’s needs and to please them. So much so that it can eventually deteriorate into contempt for those same people. I wrote a bit about it in my journal. Not sure if relevant or at all relatable but it’s what I got from it at least.

Spoiler

Chaos Dragon Reborn

I also started to heal and recover my masculinity, self worth and personal power in a positive way. I never could figure out why I never could get what I wanted, or get my life together. It’s always been such a mess, and failure after failure! Turns out I’ve suffered from the chronic illness called Niceguyitus. Yeah… it’s not nice at all. I’m currently reading No More Mr. Nice Guy by Robert A. Glover and oh damn, now I get it. “Nice guys” self sacrifice in order to please others, so much so that they loose all sense of worth and personal power… and this behavior also puts others off (what partner wants a pleaser without substance or internal power or integrity?), as well as makes the nice guy resentful for not having his needs met. He’s such a nice self-sacrificing guy, after all. No?

This behavior according to Robert comes from having experienced abandonment (real or by the child imagined) in some form in childhood, and no way to integrate or overcome it properly (ie from healthy parenting). So we self -sacirfice in order to please others so that we won’t be abandoned… “again”. The mental mechanisms of a child trying to survive, still in action in the adult.

It’s also passed down from fathers to sons, who were also ‘nice guys’. It’s so glaringly clear to me now… But now I can continue to heal that, and do it properly. Another insight from the book was that as children we are inherently naive and ego-centered (it’s a survival thing). But that also means that everything that goes wrong in the family, the child internally takes the blame for. After all, it’s all about him, right? And if he in his mind is so bad because he is the “reason” for whatever trauma or disturbances occurring, why would anyone want him? Cue the subconscious abandonment issues… Not to mention attachment styles, oh god…

Niceguyitus is the reason why I never succeeded in anything, and tried to please everyone. And never got anything. And being dishonest and resentful for others not satisfying “my needs” in return. So much so that I had no personal power left at all. No wonder I’ve felt like a looser all my life. I’ve always been one.

I haven’t taken action as described in the book per se, but just being aware of the patterns and where they come from helps you begin the molting process. Then just let lose the Subs’o’war to do their job

That being said, do you have any ideas of how you could put some action to that end into… well… action?

[RVconsultant]

just let lose the Subs’o’war

Very cool phrase!

[remarkable]

Thinking more about my journey with AM… it’s definitely not what I’ve been doing for most my life which is trying to be empathetic to the needs of others and then getting stomped on and saying it’s ok.

Excellent news, congratulations on your growth.

This is embarrassing but I tried to read it years ago and got upset. Probably because I felt like I was being called out and because I always had a mentality of “why should I break my back trying to change?

Because your perception of reality was/is flawed.

Other people are not there to fit in with what YOU as an individual thinks is right and proper. Other people will do what they perceive as in their own best interests.

Why can’t people just be kind in general?

What would happen if you lived in a society where 95% of the population was kind and the other 5% were psychopaths?

The psychopaths would end up running society for their own benefit and the naive kind people would end up getting shafted which is exactly what each group deserves.

[Fractal_Explorer]

I read that snippet from your journal. I relate, but over the years I’ve stopped telling myself that this one thing was to blame for all the issues of my life. I’m glad the book gave you some insight, but now I remember another reason why I didn’t care for the book. It’s wayyy too narrow. He seems to be using nice guy as a catch all term for a huge variety of issues a person can experience. This is dangerous because it can lead to stagnated growth when the answer doesn’t lie within that framework. And a consequence of that can be more self blame when those insights didn’t carry near as much weight when you first discover them. That’s kind of what I meant by the cheap dopamine high. That rush you get when you think you’ve stumbled on some key piece of fixing your life, but it just feels good and that’s it.

That being said, do you have any ideas of how you could put some action to that end into… well… action?

My eternal struggle man. I hoard info, wait, wait, hoard, wait, etc. Action is not my strength so I’ve realized going for grandiose huge changes is setting me up for failure. These days action is mostly in my own head. My relationship with things, who I tell myself I am, how I identify, etc. Outwardly not much seems to be done, but inwardly I learn to let go of patterns of identification that bind me to old habits that bring about unwanted things in my life. This is why I’m very hesitant with books these days, they seem like massive time wasters for me because I know nothing in them isn’t going to be though provoking, the missing piece is action which just relies on me. Nothing external to myself can do that.

In the end a well formulated plan never acted upon is worse than a plan with flaws that someone actually puts into action.

[Fractal_Explorer]

Excellent news, congratulations on your growth.

Thank you

Because your perception of reality was/is flawed.

Other people are not there to fit in with what YOU as an individual thinks is right and proper. Other people will do what they perceive as in their own best interests.

But how could my perception of reality be flawed if nobody actually sees what reality is? How can anyone know what reality is? Even physicists are trying to figure that out. I’m not trying to bust your balls. I’m just wondering what you meant by that. How are you able to determine what’s “out there” vs a constantly ongoing rendering of your own internal belief structure out into the world? Even if you collect data from your own observed experiences it’s still inherently biased.

Mind you this doesn’t negate the experiences where being taken advantage of is caused by not standing up for oneself.

What would happen if you lived in a society where 95% of the population was kind and the other 5% were psychopaths?

The psychopaths would end up running society for their own benefit and the naive kind people would end up getting shafted which is exactly what each group deserves.

I’m assuming by naive kind people you’re referring to the exact behavior I’ve exhibited in the past. Not real kindness. Basically kindness without a backbone. If so, yes the psychopaths would stomp all over them. Though “deserves” is questionable.

[remarkable]

But how could my perception of reality be flawed if nobody actually sees what reality is? How can anyone know what reality is? Even physicists are trying to figure that out. I’m not trying to bust your balls. I’m just wondering what you meant by that. How are you able to determine what’s “out there” vs a constantly ongoing rendering of your own internal belief structure out into the world? Even if you collect data from your own observed experiences it’s still inherently biased.

This is a fair enough question. (But having said that I won’t get involved in a discussion on determinism).

“Why can’t people just be kind in general”? Well by and large they, as a generality, actually are. Its just that they don’t particularly go out their way and won’t necessarily perceive what someone else needs or wants. But ordinary people do tend to be pretty decent.

However pleas of “The world would be a nicer place if the world was a nicer place” is the sort of meaningless anodyne tripe you hear from beauty pageant contestants and stupid naive lefty voters. It is meaningless because you can take nothing from it from which to either improve your own life or improve society.

I am proper rich, have an agreeably pleasing income and pay no income tax.

You are a worker drone, your employer makes money from you and you pay both state and federal taxes.

Which is more moral?

You need to consider the nuances, the hidden meanings and X-order effects.

Does society encourage you to think a certain way about this?

Why would that be?

Who does it help?

Only the little people pay taxes to quote Leonora Hemsley.

---

People have shouted at you at work.

Do you think people ever shout at me?

Why would that be?

---

When you have a firm foundation, what is your next step?

---

Perhaps the real test is if your understanding of reality is useful to you in achieving what you want in life or is holding you back.

I’m assuming by naive kind people you’re referring to the exact behavior I’ve exhibited in the past. Not real kindness. Basically kindness without a backbone. If so, yes the psychopaths would stomp all over them. Though “deserves” is questionable.

And there you have it.

You question “deserves”.

Of course they deserve it because that is the end result of their actions.

You need to let go of your inner obsequious nice guy.

Be dangerous but disciplined.

What is the best way to get something, anything?

To deserve it.

What is the best way to get rich?

Start loads of businesses and invest all your money.

What is the best way to get lots of hotties?

Maximise your physical and mental SMV and approach lots of hotties?

Etc, etc.

Work out what you want to do.

Find out how to do it.

Then do it.

[Fractal_Explorer]

This is a fair enough question. (But having said that I won’t get involved in a discussion on determinism).

“Why can’t people just be kind in general”? Well by and large they, as a generality, actually are. Its just that they don’t particularly go out their way and won’t necessarily perceive what someone else needs or wants. But ordinary people do tend to be pretty decent.

However pleas of “The world would be a nicer place if the world was a nicer place” is the sort of meaningless anodyne tripe you hear from beauty pageant contestants and stupid naive lefty voters. It is meaningless because you can take nothing from it from which to either improve your own life or improve society.

This is fair. Yes I agree with you here. The lamenting on why things are difficult vs actual change is a problem. But at the same time I don’t find the idea of people desiring a nicer world revolting. Change begins with a feeling or desire for something, sometimes it does get stuck in this state of limbo and goes nowhere so I see your point.

Perhaps the real test is if your understanding of reality is useful to you in achieving what you want in life or is holding you back.

Well this kind of brings me back to my first point. “Understanding reality” is a tall order, that is if you take the view of the metaphysical aspects of it. A more accurate statement I’d use for myself is if my current actions are inline with a reality a desire.

And there you have it.

You question “deserves”.

Of course they deserve it because that is the end result of their actions.

Do you not have empathy for someone being exploited? Yeah it’s a consequence of their actions, but there’s more nuance than that. I’m not thinking purely in terms of cause and effect here.

I’ll say this. Your cognition is very different than mine. Have you always been this way or were these lessons you had to learn yourself? You seem to be able to entirely separate any emotion from events relating to human beings and see them in terms of pure logic. My brain does not do that.

[Athanaxos]

These days action is mostly in my own head. My relationship with things, who I tell myself I am, how I identify, etc. Outwardly not much seems to be done, but inwardly I learn to let go of patterns of identification that bind me to old habits that bring about unwanted things in my life.

Dude, how we relate to ourselves and our own self-image, re-writing our own stories about ourselves and changing our own biases and thought patterns and habits and so on… is probably the biggest change we can do. That IS change. Real change. As within so without, and all that crap

I get your point now about “dopamine high”. I’ve had that feeling soo many times over the years. “Yes THIS is the (new and shiney) key to finally solve my major malfunction!” … and then your previous subconscious programming steamrolls you anyway Isn’t this the reason we do subs, to begin with? To change that programming from within?

In the end a well formulated plan never acted upon is worse than a plan with flaws that someone actually puts into action.

Hear hear. I’ve done that so many times. Elaborate plans and action-lists and what-have-you. And everyone out there want to sell their product and way of doing it… Only thing is… huge change is no more and no less than the accumulation of small changes over time…

Maybe the immediate action you need to take is smaller than you make it out to be atm?

[Fractal_Explorer]

Isn’t this the reason we do subs, to begin with? To change that programming from within?

Yup I’ve learned not all minds are alike. Unfortunately for me conscious intervention for me has been like trying to put out a raging forest fire with a squirt gun. I absolutely need the subliminals to hit me on that deeper level.

Maybe the immediate action you need to take is smaller than you make it out to be atm?

Could be. Right now I’m just trying to take more action towards making music without forcing it and losing enjoyment. That’s been a strong priority. But another one is moving out of NY and finding somewhere else to live. I don’t feel aligned here. Still trying to figure out where that is for me.

[Fractal_Explorer]

Had some minor breakthroughs this past week. Learning more about my defensive strategies towards change. Long story short, it seems my actual integration of the sub has been off and on. I guess stonewalling, I’m able to completely detach from the influence of the sub. This is due to a long-standing habit in my life of disconnecting instead of integrating when unwanted or unfamiliar things are presented to me.

But I’ve been inviting the feelings in and the energy associated with it. So far this past week I’ve had more calm like I’m not in a mad race to get things done before I die. People at the office have been more friendly with me and I’m slightly more charismatic. Things aren’t bothering me as much, like if I can’t get to all my work. I just tell myself its not a big deal, they won’t fire me so why stress over it?

There’s a part of myself emerging that’s less serious, which I’ve learned for me seriousness stems from being in perceived danger. Mainly all my life interacting with people has been no fun.

I’m almost done with another track I’ve been working on. The past few sessions I’ve realized how much I box in my own creativity. Interestingly enough it seems to reflect the same sort of mentality with disconnecting from unknown stuff. For example I’m always interested in how much you can convey with a few notes, but this turned into a block where I started thinking playing too many notes was bad. Trying to edit the creation before it even has time to manifest in the real world is terrible for creativity and that’s what I’ve been doing. That’s what I’ve been doing with a lot of stuff in my life. Having it get caught up in that internal filter vs expressing it freely.

I’m starting to wonder if that blocked feeling somewhat stems from ADHD. People with ADHD are impulsive in their actions at times. I’m thinking maybe when I was younger I annoyed someone being my natural self saying weird stuff or allowing my mind to flow freely. Now as an adult I put a tight cap on it but it’s dulled my personality. You can’t be selective with what naturally flows. The tap is either on or off, at least in my case. I guess a lot of my life has been spent carefully analyzing my actions before I do them vs actually doing it.

[Fractal_Explorer]

Alright so this one’s a little personal. But I’ve been thinking a lot about sexual encounters and relationships lately. AM probably doing that no doubt.

I’ve never been a chaser when it comes to women. In fact I’ve had times in the past where I didn’t pursue enough and the women lost interest. But honestly, I’m more sexually attracted to women who are aggressively flirtatious to me and carry things along. Hell I’ve even got a thing for dominant women. Some guys like the thrill of the chase, but that’s never been me and I don’t think it ever will be.

Whatever people want to say about men needing to pursue and lead. Eh seems antiquated and inflexible.

Going through AM I’m going through stages of what the hell it is to be a man. My own definition at least. And what I’m learning is there are a lot of rigid stereotypes I’ve felt the need to live up to all throughout my life. I do feel like I’m taking the best parts of myself and strengthening them to be my own person not some caricature. But it’s a head trip.

[Fractal_Explorer]

Definitely digging through layers of neediness. I’m on dating apps just keeping an eye out for someone that sparks my interest. So far I’ve gotten some mutual matches, but I don’t even start the conversation. Sometimes it’s just a pain in the ass keeping the conversation going, it’s to the point where I’m like “do I even want to send a message and go through that same shit all over again?” The whole experience of those apps just makes me not want to interact because of how much of a waste of time it feels like. I fully acknowledge I suck at it, but I don’t really care about getting better either.

I mostly keep them around in the off chance there’s someone cool on there. But even then I’m probably competing with other guys that are way more desperate than me and give the girls more attention.

[Fractal_Explorer]

How to process subliminals better.

Step 1, let the emotions be there and feel them

That’s it. How I continually fuck that up I don’t know. But what should be an entirely natural process went sideways for me.

My ability to regulate my emotions has never really been all there. So what I did was I just started to suppress all of them. Not good. I’m learning to allow these emotions without acting on them but I’m learning I have very strong emotions and I’m easily provoked. Anger being the big one. I’ve learned to not let it get me into trouble, but it’s not healthy at all. So while it looks like I’m calm on the outside it’s like a hurricane on the inside.

Again this is an ADHD thing. I’m learning what weaknesses I have that are largely out of my control and not holding myself to a standard that’s unfair. The irony of me being so immersed in feelings like this but 90% of the time I couldn’t give you a solid word for any of it. This is what can cause communication breakdown with people in my life. How am I supposed to explain what’s going on when I can’t even make sense of it?

[Fractal_Explorer]

The more I continue to prune the weeds of my mind I realize trying to hold onto an idealized state when you’re not actually there causes a lot of internal unrest.

The fact is I’ve had bad habits for most of my life. My relationship with myself isn’t great. Even listening to the subs I can’t expect that to just vanish. It will pass through my mind, it’s going to be there in my consciousness. It can’t just fade out of nowhere. Or if it can I haven’t seen evidence of that in all the years I’ve worked with my subconscious to change.

The goal is continual improvement and growth, but detaching from all the previous bad habits and beliefs. An important thing to remind myself is that is that the thoughts and emotions shouldn’t be avoided. My relationship with them should be adjusted. Avoiding or being incredibly vigilant about having certain thoughts and feelings implies they inherently hold more power over me.

Basically it’s all about learning how to become aware of the transitional state more. Not the hurtful past and not the idealized future. Not easy, every fiber of my being wants to either run and hide to some feel good state to deny things or be pulled into the limiting stuff.

[Fractal_Explorer]

Reading more of the Kybalion. I wish all books were this straightforward when it comes to spiritual teachings.

In a few chapters I’ve learned what I’ve struggled with for a while now. The paradox of how everything is a creation yet real at the same time. The idea that we simultaneously live in a simulated sort of reality but it’s real nonetheless. So although you can ponder what fire is, how you perceive it, if you stick your hand in you will get burned. Doesn’t matter how enlightened you are or believe that it’s a creation of mind, it still exists as a force in this reality that effects you. And that goes for everything in life. And that has to be respected to understand how to navigate life.

I mentioned my journey with AM was to ground me into the physical more. My power over my immediate reality has never been strong. But more and more I realize I’m currently on a treadmill. It doesn’t matter where I go or what I do, I’m technically in one place as things unfold around me. It’s an illusion.

All in all it seems like this is part of my journey in life. To gain a deeper understanding of the principles of how this reality works but also not to divorce myself from reality so much as to become a hermit in some hut somewhere.