I have a good amount of data from my history of using subs.
I want to gather more from you guys & compare it with your experience too.
Maybe I’m uniquely resistant to deep, long lasting changes from just ~4 cycles of use.
I gotta gather more data to figure it out.
Your insights and mind expanding experiences of what’s possible are what stick from the shorter runs.
Though I tend to agree that longer use means more longer lasting results. That’s why I’ve employed the one title for 12 cycles. While I can switch up my 1 or 2 other titles every 4 cycles or as I see fit.
This is a pretty interesting question. I’m just responding spontaneously and off the cuff.
I guess I don’t think about personal growth in terms of an essentialized personality that is either changing or not changing.
So, this question doesn’t quite land for me as far as how I make sense of things. I mean personally and subjectively.
I guess I think more in terms of ‘What have I achieved?’ rather than ‘How have I changed?’
In my case, it’s more that I am breaking my life down into various tasks that I would like to achieve or projects in which I would like to be engaged. I guess I want something more tangible than a personality label.
I don’t feel that I am working to change my personality. It’s more that I want to be able to strategize more effectively around my personality and that I want to find better ways of harnessing and positioning my personality.
This means that if I happen to bump into a useful perspective or approach that allows me to “get more out of” my personality, that can be a long-term game changer.
For example, in 2021, I was led to Clinical hypnosis as another means of interacting with the mind. In that year, I attended a 100-hour training course with Dr. Michael Yapko.
I know for a fact that the course, my experience on the course, the benefits that I derived from it, and the implications and directions that grew out of the experience are all results that are related to the year I spent working with Alchemist and Quantum Limitless.
I’m not working with those programs anymore. Not specifically. They’ve been replaced in my stack by the Revelation programs. But the point that I’m making here is that the developments in my life that occurred while working with those programs continue to have implications today. Over 2 years since I stopped playing them.
My personality has not changed, but the resources to which I have access have changed.
So I guess I’m finally getting to my point here which is that a short-term subliminal run can have long-term effects and benefits by connecting you with internal and external resources that you continue to draw upon even after you stop listening to that subliminal.
What if the subs that “worked” only reinforced the person you think you want to be, while the others failed because they challenged the parts of yourself you’re too afraid to face?
We are building a habit here which in time will become part of our personality
As @Malkuth have said,
I focus more on what I have achieved, even at the beginning it was only negligible to me, I keep reinforcing my mind the belief that I already had it - how and what it takes to get it no matter what situation I am in.
I learned not to get attached on anything including the subs, as a matter of fact I had on several occasions miss the schedule listening time. When we actually listened to the subs, it was already there - it just needs a trigger from us to affect our reality.
I think we all need to visit the sales page to see if there are changes that we didn’t catch happening into our lives. For instance while doing my routine with EoG I always declare that this thing will take a long time. I do not have the skill of money matters, talking to marketeers - but then someone (a women in the crowd whom I slept with) happen to record my conversation with the front desk people from the competition. So it will become innate to you (most often you will not be able to know that it was happening) until the time someone or your mindful enough to catch the evidence.
Another example in Wanted Black, I was about to try it out approaching women when on this particular night club hinders to go around because it was so dark and loud. But if the belief was there, it does not recognize any obstacles, you don’t need to force yourself into it. The women will approach you.
The schedule was for basis - at least - a guide. But it shouldn’t be done in multiple loops.
I think the mind doesn’t like the idea of being forced on things that the owner himself is not comfortable with. I had to make sure my mind and body is relaxed to get the maximum benefits of the sub.
You have to recognize what had happened, be grateful for them and not being always surprise as if you don’t want them - when you doubt the inevitable or complain about it this will push anything like it in the future.
Indulge yourself on what you have achieve and recall and rethink them over and over again - become comfortable with the new things into your life.
The schedule and the number of days are just guides - do not let it define you.
@Malkuth, your perspective shifts the focus from personality change to resource acquisition and goal achievement, which is intriguing… However, could it be that this emphasis on external achievements is a way of sidestepping deeper internal transformation? In other words, are you leveraging subliminals to work around your inherent traits rather than fundamentally reshaping them? And if so, do you think this approach limits the depth of personal evolution you could achieve?
I started my subliminal journey last year September with 4 months of Emperor.
Despite not getting what I wanted, my resilience grew enormously. Right after I stopped listening to Emperor, my father stopped my funding. He threatened to do so a few years ago and it led to weeks of panic attacks. This time I stayed pretty calm. This resilience stayed with me till now.
Then there’s of course the healing titles I’ve run.
It’s not like the insight into my trauma vanished. Also the trauma didn’t return.
While running my first custom with voice is the Law, I noticed my voice getting deeper. That vanished after I stopped running the custom after three months. But interestingly I notice it returning recently, now that I’m clearing out other blocks.
Lineage on the other hand is still very active in my life. The relationship with my mother improved tremendously and keeps great without using the custom.
I don’t know, but a part of me thinks that it might be due to the lengths of the loops.
At the beginning I read somewhere in here to run short loops for fast but not deep change. Run long loops for great change that needs some time become visible. And I’m running rather long loops compared to you (at least in the past).
On the other hand, I didn’t notice any change at all from wealth subs like GM, NR, HoM etc.
Only more basic subs like LB and Ascension brought forth wealth results.
I can’t say I’ve had a ton of result from almost a year of ASBR + HOM but I think the issue is microloops (they don’t really work that good on me) and also just the fact that those subs are too advanced for me. I was running them not only without understanding of what I want to do in life, I was also running them without understanding of how to build my life in a way that I just take action naturally (and later, New Emperor has helped with that).
I’ve only gained some character traits from it during that year but the important thing that I’ve noticed from the subs is that the scripting can lie dormant and activate later, once the conditions are good.
Yet, I also had a ton of profound results from new Emperor which I ran for less than 3 months total, iirc. That have permanently changed me as a person. But I must also note that I had a wild listening schedule with it and was using it solo
So, anyway, I figured that I’ll be building a strong foundation first with AM for a year or longer. The plan is 12+ months with AM and later, starting from summer, 6+ months with EOG ST1. After that, I hope to be able to run more advanced subs with better results.
Man, those ramblings about Emperor and stuff are making me question my whole decision of running AM for a year! lmao
EDIT: @Viktor I’m blaming you, if I change my whole plan for 2025 just because of this post! (all in good spirit though!)
to answer your question directly: Path of Supremacy - #48 by WorldOvertaker
Most of those results I mentioned here have stayed with me.
Honestly,
It could be, but I don’t think it has been.
For me, this may come down to how we think of ‘Control’ and the importance of Control.
There are certain aspects of my development that I allow to change, but I don’t attempt to Control the change.
Then there are other aspects of life in which I embrace a goal or a specific direction and I work and cultivate development in that direction.
In my actual experience, I have not found that one of those has to prevent or block the other.
One big question would also be, @Viktor, how long in total did you expose yourself to the subs?
Edit:
At least to compare the total exposure of the subs with lasting change like HeO or LBfH, with other subs.
Also, did you notice healing effects from DRR1 vanish?
I know you’re a friend of small steps, of cautious increases. As good as it is for keeping recon small, it keeps total exposure minimal as well.
I noticed on a few occasions that longer loops gave less recon and better results. My guess is, that one of the more advanced stages contained something to reconcile believes faster.
I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT but that wild growth on Emperor was when I listened to it for MUCH MORE than recommended, full loops, longer cycles, more often.
That’s true, how did I not put more weight into this perspective?
The “deep, long term effect” I meant is the continuous, compounding effect that grow within & alongside me over time. Like the dedication from HeO. I haven’t used it for half a year and I’m still benefiting from building that part of me.
But the perspective you said is also useful.
It’s more like opening a lock.
The sub makes us aware of the treasure chest, then it guides us to lockpick it and grow using the loot.
Unlock the chest, loot the treasure and then leave.
DRLD taught me the importance of clarity in solving problems.
WB gave me more clarity about my emotional landscape.
LBFH showed me how important healthy attachment is.
I just need to truly understand them once and the continuous benefit from that insight/experience won’t go away.
I know the importance of clarity, therefore I use this knowledge to help me figure out a solution.
I reached a deeper understanding of my emotions, so I can look from this point of view whenever I’m dealing with internal struggles.
etc.
I’ll take this into consideration.
That’s interesting.
I see both the tangible results brought by subs like Mogul & UWX, as equal to the cleansing & changes inside I get from DRR. Both enhance my life.
Same with me.
One thing I notice from subs, is they enhance me as a person so I can work even-with/around/alongside/to excel with my strength & weaknesses to get to my goals.
That’s what I wanted to say with my response to ABC above, but you wrote it simpler & much better than I did, rofl.
I think I really didn’t put as much emphasis on this one perspective for long term growth as I should.
I’ll take this into consideration even more.
*note: I might have misunderstood with what you mean by “personality”. But I try my best to understand it from my point of view
I won’t say the 4 subs I mentioned failed.
If anything, I’m still praising them for what they helped me achieve back then.
Even WB, which I had a ton of recon with, and took me a few cycles to accept, still gave me great results.
For my case personally, the question is about having the results stick long after I stop using the sub.
As an example,
If I had stuck with Exp RM:V longer, I’d have maintained more of that musical sense I had when I used it even after I stopped. The results from before I used RM:V, during, and months after I stopped are almost night and day. Even now I’m still confused about how I managed to pull it off back then.
I don’t know what insight I got back then, all I know is I made banger sound compositions, and I’m still trying to get back up to the level of what I did back then
That’s just one example of what I mean by the results not sticking.
The story is different with HeO which I used for 12 cycles straight.
The intensity of the effects I got is not as high as when I was actively using it half a year ago, but a good percentage of the adherence to the virtues, deriving fulfilment from them, the resilience etc still stuck around.
Similar to Mogul.
The passive buff to my monetary condition is still here.
It’s just easier to get more wealth even after I stopped using it months ago.
It’s the “just go with the flow and reach the result” kind of effect. This effect just sticks.
And I won’t even start talking about LBFH, because I won’t be able to stop if I do.
Points are taken though.
Put more emphasis on the treasures attained from the unlocked chests when planning about what I can get from subs long term.
Notes taken: Emperor is busted, ROFL
I also got this “dormant scripting activating later” from LBFH & Mogul after I started using DRR.
I think I rushed some of them to full loop too.
I need to experiment with this later on.
A new sub, 4 cycles, full loops only.
Yeah, I think I didn’t put as much emphasis on this aspect when talking about deep, long term changes.
The consensus seems to be similar, the benefit of this shouldn’t be overlooked when planning for long enduring results.
Oooooooo… swap your stack~
I’ll take a look at it!
Yes, I really liked this point too.
It made me think of the idea of Flow Factor.
If you go through enough experiences of allowing change to be easy, even if those experiences are only in short time-frames, that could lead to a deeper shift in how you relate to change in general.
It’s almost 2 years in total.
HeO ~12 cycles straight, LBFH ~12 cycles total, Mogul ~10 cycles total.
UWX ~4 cycles straight, Exp RM:V ~2 cycles straight, WB ~4 cycles total, DRLD ~4 cycles total.
For my own case, I can’t really categorize DRR1 as a healing sub.
It worked for me more like a boost, like LE.
The healing I got from it felt like tiny snippets of what I got from DRR2.
That’s true, I’m very wary about having my actual goals being disrupted too much by recon.
For me, subs are secondary. It acts more like grease to help the machine run smoother.
I’m unwilling to risk getting knocked down in recon anymore like when I first used WB, especially with what I have going on right now. Lethargy recon is the worst.
Physiologically, some of my inherent traits are that I am bipedal (possessed of two legs that I use for ambulatory movement), I’ve got lungs, a liver, a gallbladder and other various internal organs; I’ve got a central nervous system organized around a brain and a spinal cord. Skeletal system, muscular system, the whole nine.
I’m not trying to change those.
On the other hand, I use exercise, sleep, and nutrition to take care of them and to try to optimize their function. As their function improves and develops, I may develop larger muscles, stronger and denser bones, higher amounts of circulating immune cells, thicker and more efficient nerve connections, and so on. If I pursue this with sufficient consistency, effectiveness, discipline, and so on, I may, in the end, seem to have transformed into a radically different person. But…the basic structures will not have changed.
On the level of mind, I think there are some similarities. Often, a problematic pattern comes not from a fundamental structural flaw in personality, but from a poorly chosen strategy for expressing that personality. A desire for adventure and risk, for example, may lead someone to become a bank robber. The exact same desire for adventure and risk may lead the person to become a firefighter.
In the short- and medium-terms, it’s a wise idea to compassionately manage, refine, and husband the qualities that one currently has. Over the long-term, it’s not unusual for the deep structures of the self and personality to undergo changes and transformations as well.
But changing the fundamental personality is not a good or a bad thing. It’s more similar to moving one’s residence to a new faraway country. Whether that ends up being an improvement or a damage will depend on the choices, connections, and adaptations that one makes in that new country.
These changes in life and in self are going to happen in any case, whether we embrace them or not. We can participate but we can’t really control.
That’s my opinion.
I meant rather like in total exposure time.
Like cycle 1: 11 days of 15 minutes (I think that was my first cycle with Emperor) = 165 minutes.
Then adding up all the cycles. In this case I think I’m somewhere around 300 minutes on Emperor.
I think it’s gonna be on the low side.
I do a lot of slow increment (+5s, +10s etc) & I take extra rest days in the middle of the cycle.
I’ll take a look at it later.
EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text.
It would IMO makes sense to break down the term results a bit by the kinds of sub and the way they work. Say, you use Paragon and it helps you to heal something, it achieved its goal, but “longlasting effect” wouldn’t be the right way to describe it.
So a differentiation could look something like this:
Healing: Physical (e. g. Paragon)
Momentary Effect. (RotNW)
Healing, Dissolving (Khan 1, Khan Black 1, Lovebomb, Sanguine)
Developmental: Personality Building, Spiritual (Emperor, Khan Black 2, 3, RICH)
Developmental: Skills (UWX, Vibes, Paragon: Sleep, RICH)
Developmental: Physical Shifting. (Shifting should be its own thing: Legacy of the Spartan)
There is of course overlap.
It makes sense to exclude subs for Momentary Effects and Physical Healing from this discussion, as they aren’t really meant to be used long term. (Chronic illness is a special topic, but still should be excluded, as we don’t know how it would develop without subs.)
The results of the new Lovebomb (listened to it roughly a year ago) after brutal recon still hold up and are absolutely profound regarding, selflove, boundaries, emotional selfdetermination. Listened to it for 2-3 cycles IIRC.
IMO subs dissolving inner obstacles are by their very nature the easiest to achieve lasting results with. Once you really let your baggage go, it’s, well, gone and it stays gone.
The Unfolding (RoM, RoS) works in a way similar though constructive. Insights I gained during listening to RoM are still there. It is a “you can’t unsee what you’ve seen” kinda thing.
Related to this one could view the pure Skill Developmental subs. Results IME take longer to develop as you actually learn skills, but they stay. If you’ve learned to write you can write.
With the NSE everything kinda becomes a skill, I suspect the results get more permanent with SC subs over time. Very much looking forward to ZPU.
Physical Shifting would merit its own discussion. Too different and too complex to be discussed here.
That leaves us with the Personal Development subs.
The permanency of results for Personal Development subs really depend IME on a couple of points:
How close are you to the archetype already. I listened to new Daredevil since its release, got quickly insync and the result feel pretty permanent. Then again: How do you really measure this? I’ve always been a storyteller and loved to make people laugh and keep them entertained.
How many archetypical (personal developmental) subs are you listening to at once. Something like Khan and WANTED might need quite some time to be harmonized and there probably will still be a tension between the approaches. This tension, I suspect, works against permanency. We want to convince the subconscious to accept a new normal, within us and in our personal world. The more conherent the new normal is, the more willing the subconscious will be to accept it.
Can you integrate the new normal everywhere in your life? It has to become routine, your new personal world to actually become permanent.
I suspect, especially with developmental subs, that we often don’t see the results that are already there. If you had to jump over your shadow (is that an english idiom too?) to stand your ground and defend your ideas and now it’s your second nature after using Limitless, it will look exactly the same to the outside world and a degree yourself even though it is a big leap.
As we want to move many of the cornerstones of our personality there is a strong subconscious tendency so snap back to the old normal. As many of these cornerstones are defined/influenced by the survival instinct (like key fears, trauma etc.) it would make sense to work on them first for permanency later.
The one thing that gave me the biggest developmental push regarding subs, consistency and permanency was the healing of Lovebomb and a couple of other related healing subs. The emotional baggage IME keeps one firmly knotted to the old normal, reinforcing it over and over, makes movement so much harder and binds an awful lot of energy. Throwing it out first would be a good idea. There are several examples on here of members working on healing with Khan 1 and Dragon Rising for 1 year+ before getting incredibly quick results afterwards.
(Disclaimer: When I write about sub use, I normally mean listened to it within a custom.)
100%!!
I was saying the other day in another discussion that this kind of results not only are ever lasting, but they can also be achieved pretty quickly.
Other results needs more time because theres a lot of pre requirements for that result to really happen, those pre requirements are also results that builds up into something greater.
Theres also results that people will never achieve, but the fun is in your journey to try and get there.
To me the issue seems to be located somewhere else though.
#1 Its not easy for most people to measure whats happening under the hood (unconsciously) so we tend to focus on the outside manifestations, which occurs afterwards.
#2 We tend to judge the effectiveness of a process, comparing it with our expectations of how/when/where that thing is suppose to happen.
#3 Ultimately, many people dont know how to correctly stablish good objectives.
Im not pointing any fingers here, Ive done all these things myself more often than I would like too… Just making a generic observation.