I can understand if you feel nervous in this environment.
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What did you do about it?
So what did you do about it?
Perhaps this is why other people treat you like shit.
Your ego is tied up with seeing yourself as a “responsible” person.
IOW you invite this sort of behaviour just so you can get the ego gratification that you grant yourself for being so “responsible”.
IOW, you deserve it.
So let me ask you a third time, what did you do about it?
Because I bet you did fuck all.
Would other people treat you like shit if you shouted back?
Would other people treat you like shit if you said no, walked out of the room and demanded (and stuck to your guns) a written apology before working on this again.
First off I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you’re trying to make a point vs being unnecessarily abrasive.
Second. I didn’t do anything, I rolled with the punches. You choose your battles. I happen to know if I did what you suggested it would have made my situation worse, not better. You say what I do is ego gratification, but if I stir up shit more and make a situation worse just to “do something” to me that’s more ego. FYI this was HR out of all the fucking people, so yeah good luck shouting back at someone like that. Last thing I’d want is to be on her shit list.
Third this ties in with my overarching point of how this company is toxic. I was demonstrating the trickle down effect and how it spreads in the company by people not being emotionally mature. That’s what I meant by responsible. I don’t take out my frustrations on other people.
Corporate politics can be difficult to navigate and can require tact, patience, and analysis. It can be difficult to suppress what might be reflexive emotional impulses, and put an objective such as staying employed above other desires.
I think this does sound like an unpleasant work environment. In the USA there are rules, guidelines, or laws intended to prevent “hostile work environments”? I would guess other countries would have them such as Australia, Canada, and Japan, as well as those in the EU and UK.
I know those environments where people like to raise their voice or maybe even volunteer you to be their object of frustration can be difficult. I don’t have any quick and easy solutions for you.
Perhaps other people who work in or with corporate environments could comment.
@RockyHandsome and @Hoppa are the first that I can think of. Would either of you please comment on @Fractal_Explorer’s 2 posts above?
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Thanks for the tag @RVconsultant
Unfortunately I’m not qualified to answer this.
My solution for corporate politics was to stay the fuck out of it. I knew early on that I wont be happy working for other people.
Been happy with that decision.
@Fractal_Explorer Sorry I can’t help. All I can do is wish you luck.
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@Fractal_Explorer I apologize for the novel I am about to write. I can completely empathize with your situation. I am currently living in it. I hate my job with an absolute passion. I work in the government too so theres an extra layer of bullshit added to normal corporate politics. I have become the friend/husband that hates his job yet won’t quit. Why? Clear fear of failure that won’t go away. I have been fired before so im sure that affects it also. I feel I am unemployable nor do I want to be. I deeply desire to run my own business. I play the game well, but I hate it. It feels like the Dementors in Harry Potter.
Now I am taking steps to get through it. DR is probably working on you like EoG is working on me in terms of digging up painful emotions that you didn’t know were there. Stay the course.
I have now shifted to using my job as a runway for my business. It provides some level of security while I build up speed to take off. Now I am the friend that tries out a million different business ideas and won’t quit his job.
Reality is that I’m still building my jet and am very confused about what I want to do. I keep scrapping the one I build for better models. I have a clear problem that I am working to solve that will enhance people’s lives.
Build a clear vision and pursue it relentlessly. If you don’t know. Ask yourself questions over and over until your subconscious comes up with the answer. In my experience questions are far more powerful than answers. What do you want out of life? Don’t give up. The biggest mountains have the best sights. You are not alone in this struggle.
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Beware this trap.
I was stuck in it for years.
The faster you get something up and running, even if it misfires, the better. Just fail faster. You will succeed sooner.
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Its a shitty trap. Fear of failure is real bitch. It makes you question stepping out of line and striking out on your own.
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You have to learn to fail. Every “failure” is a win. You learned what doesn’t work.
Failing often means you are pushing out of your comfort zone.
Eventually you will succeed.
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I sympathize. Thank you for your input, as in all your above posts.
Thank you for posting.
Yes, actually they would, and he very likely would have lost his job. That is rarely good for anyone’s overall situation and development. Also, losing control or appearing to at work rarely gets anyone respect, or improves their status. Neither does refusing to do something that’s part of your job until you get an apology. That’ll get you fired.
There are better ways of handling that kind of thing. Including finding a new job THEN quitting.
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@RVconsultant Appreciate you bringing in the other guys to help.
And thanks for the posts everyone. It’s a difficult situation for sure and I’m navigating away from it all, but it’s slow moving and sometimes incredibly frustrating.
@Pyro No need to apologize, I value the experience of others. And it’s a bit like having your foot in two worlds when trying to build a business. I’m heading for the same path. It just feels like this job is like a leech on me I have to pull off and throw away but there’s a lot preventing me from doing so.
Appreciate the input
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Feel free to take it anyway you like.
However, think about what I actually wrote not what you think I wrote or what you would like me to write.
So you sucked it up, no wonder you’re so miserable.
Do you think you should be shouted at and made to feel like shit, I don’t, and I’ve never even met you.
You keep on saying that yet never get around to doing ANYTHING about it.
Why not?
You praise yourself with being so responsible and being oh so emotionally mature and laud yourself that you would never lower yourself to take out your frustrations on others.
Does it make you feel good to think this while getting shouted at and abused?
I bet there are some people that the HR droid and the senior manager would never shout at.
Ask yourself why?
And so what if you lost your job, its not the end of the world, the earth won’t open up and swallow you, there are other jobs out there where you won’t get shouted at and abused.
I bet your local McDonalds is hiring or is an honest days labour beneath your dignity as you see yourself as an IT professional (as well as being emotionally mature and responsible) and anything to change that is a threat to your ego.
Another job, even an entry level at your local McShitburger will get you out of your current toxic situation and give you a base to work on. It could work wonders for your mental health, and its not as though you would have to stay there either.
Look, you have been in this situation for some time, we have all been able to read all about it.
What you have been doing is clearly not working.
Perhaps its time to try something else because if you insist on trying to knock down a brick wall by head butting it you will only end up with a headache.
Lets replay it:-
HR Droid: YOU WERE MEANT TO FIX THIS ALREADY, ELEMENTARY_VISION.
e_v: DON’T YOU RAISE YOUR VOICE TO ME, KEEP A CIVIL TONGUE IN YOUR HEAD.
What is the worst that can happen?
You leave a toxic work environment.
Is that so fucking bad, man.
And guess what, if you acquiesce to be their verbal punch bag they will continue to punch you.
Well, yes, but e_v is only an IT worker and has no management responsibility (AFAIK) so politics as such doesn’t really enter into it.
Neither does legislation/rules as any half decent manager can use them to their advantage.
Are you able to offer any advice what so ever to e_v?
The problem is that if nothing changes then e_v gets used as a verbal punchbag forever.
Btw, if anyone ever gets called to a disciplinary investigation and then a disciplinary sanction make sure to record them both, surreptitiously if necessary, as senior management get pissed off with middle/junior management getting caught playing fast and loose.
The faster you bring a product to market the sooner your customers will help you improve it.
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Being a verbal punchbag is rarely good for anyones overall situation and development.
And its possible to shout without losing control.
Is it really so bad to be fired from a toxic workplace. Its not exactly doing his mental health much good, is it.
And these are?
It will be perceived as a loss of control, and possibly a threat if the HR lady wants to push it. Worse things than being fired can come from that.
That depends on wether it would leave him unable to pay his bills, make it harder for him to get a new job that’s at least as good, or any number of other things. That’s not very good for mental health either.
In the moment saying something like “I’m trying to help you here, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t yell at me”.
Long term, as I said, find another job, preferably one that’s better in every way. Then quit.
It’s a lot easier to find a good job when you already have one. He can get out of there without doing himself serious harm in the process, he just has to do it the smart way and may have to be a little patient.
Rubbish, any thespian will tell you it is possible tp raise ones voice without it appearing as loss of control.
And that’s remarkably easy for you to say isn’t it.
Why has he not already done so?
Because he is so enmeshed the the toxic atmosphere it is affecting his mental state, he doesn’t know if he is coming or going.
Bullying (because thats what it is) can have a really bad effect on some people and take away their agency.
How long has he been complaining about this? He’s getting fed up suffering it and I’m getting fed up reading about it.
Something has to change and he needs to force the issue.