Art Thread for Artists

The Emperor's Lounge
#96

Ive never sold anything but I understand this feeling. But I also believe it’s a self imposed one a lot of artists create for themselves. A sort of limiting mindset. To me it’s all about maintaining integrity and authenticity and people being attracted to that. That would be the end goal for me. Not creating a product to sell to someone, but having people want what I have. Being such a demand I don’t “sell” anything.

That’s the thing though artistic endeavors have a minefield of limiting beliefs. You’ve got your own biases and then the echos of every single person in your life discounting the possibility of it being a viable money making opportunity

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#97

Just to be clear, we’re talking about ourselves here, not @dorfmeister. He already said he does sell but it’s just not the top priority.

So I’m talking about me.

I think for me the issue goes beyond mere monetization.

There are definitely self-imposed aspects to how we imagine and relate to selling and the marketplace, but there are other aspects that are not.

The fundamental unit of the marketplace is literally Transaction. And transaction is the negotiation of value.

It’s not dirty. It’s not illegitimate. But it is a process ands set of skills in its own right. It requires attention and some degree of personal investment (of time, attention, energy).

For some people, Transaction, itself, is their art.

So evaluating how much care, effort, and mental/emotional real-estate one wishes to devote to it, is real and requires some intentionality.

It also requires developing sufficiently firm boundaries and some level of compartmentalization. The ‘cooks in the kitchen’ effect.

(EDIT: in other words, Thinking overly much about how and to whom this creation will be sold should be limited from excessively influencing the process itself. A balance needs to be struck. And where that right balance is for each of us can be a personal matter.)

I would not be surprised if Ultimate Artist helps with these kinds of things.

Now, with our Internet-mediated marketplace, some aspects of these things should be much easier than they once were. But probably still requires attention and management.

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#98

Part of it is simply time. While it might be nice to make more money, it is not essential to keep me going, and I would not want the business part of art to cut into my creative time, which is already more limited than I would like.

It would be extremely difficult to make the work my source of a living. Most visual artists find little to no market for the work they make.

One of my teachers was successful enough to have his work featured in the Whitney Biennale, and have individual shows and purchases from significant museums.

Within five years of the height of his success it had all dried up and he was left overextended with no longer any prospect of an adequate income from his work, even though his wife worked full time managing the practical side of his career.

He had to shift gears, and while he continued making, he never got close to again be able to support himself and his family from his work.

The art market has great vicissitudes and few master it as a means of a living. I am not saying it can’t be done, but it is very difficult.

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#100

Truthfully I’ve been a lot more influenced by my custom lately / possible astrological shifts. I completely understand what both of you are saying.

@Malkuth That balance you talk about has been ever present in my creative endeavors and I don’t even sell my stuff. So I know how unconsciously intertwined and messy it can get even with the best intentions. It’s definitely a skill.

@dorfmeister You definitely have more experience in this world than me when it comes to this. I can see how first hand experience like that can set the tone for what creating a living on art entails.

I just don’t like the idea of creative people losing time to their craft. It’s always bugged me and felt wrong. And lately I’ve been looking at the limiting beliefs surrounding all that.

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#101

Yes, I reread your post and saw that I had overlooked some of the subtleties. In fact, you had already addressed several of the points that I raised.

I also noticed something that seemed potentially eyebrow-raising, probably in a good way. I’ll see if I can pull it together and then post it here.

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#102

I was rereading and reflecting on what you’d written above when suddenly it hit me. Wait a second!

The following is from almost exactly one year ago.

It’s not like you flipped 180 or something. The basic integral values are consistent. But your subsequent increase in comfort, ease, and focused motivation with regard to proactive direction of your own path and livelihood seem unmistakeable.

Interesting. And cool, I think.

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#103

Thanks for pointing this out, this is cool. It’s like a refinement in my thinking. I think a lot of that from a year ago carries anger at the world and the demonizing of things that actually don’t have an inherent quality to them. I think I mentioned it before but my goal of AM was more grounding in the material world, seems like I’m getting closer. A transition from struggle to abundance mentality.

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#104

I think sometimes first hand experience can create stronger blocks; though it does also point out the big boulders that can get set up in the way.

I am only speaking from the point of view of fine arts made by hand like painting, drawing, printmaking and the like, so I wouldn’t want to generalize out into digital arts or more commercial art.

My take, and I have discussed this with others is that arts like painting are getting more marginalized, and while there has not been a major market for this type of work in recent times, the market seems to get worse and worse. A very few artists receive most of the sales. There is just very little room to break in.

One must start by showing art in art centers and galleries and museums. This is essential, but it is disheartening that so often this process does not give one much momentum or actual sales.

I have been in many exhibitions. Few have led to sales. I have even had a buyer approach me through the gallery he usually worked with and to make the sale I needed to give half of the money I would have made to the gallery, even though I was not represented by it. The buyer would not work directly with me. The gallery did almost nothing but took half of the money I would have made.

I would like to be disabused of my notions on this topic, but I do not think it is too far from the truth.

I think one idea from recent Law of Attraction thinking is that any problem or blockage can be overcome. This can lead a person to really feel like shit when they cannot solve the problem that they face.

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#106

Finally finished this one yesterday. One of those tracks I’ve “finished” but feels like I need to change it or alter it in some way. I think it’s just my discomfort with how it turned out. It’s a little happy at points, but the harmony pulls it back a bit with some contrasting mood. Probably an expression of the reconciliation I’ve been going through.

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#107

Got another one I finished. I guess this is progress. About 4 years ago I was lucky if I finished a song in half a year.

I think I’ll have to let this one sit for a while and then return to it later to really appreciate it. Right now I’m still going through my post burn out from working on it too long. I like it, but it’s got that familiar feeling of not really being “done”. Seems like I was able to put that aside more and just close the chapter on it to move on to something else.

And I had to laugh the other day, I checked my streaming revenue for the hell of it on distrokid and I actually made 38 cents on there. I think that’s entirely from me listening to my own songs on youtube lol. And that was kind of growth too because not too long ago I’d feel like a failure for not getting plays from anyone.

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#108

clean ass drums. complex rhythms and dissections of rhythm.

For me, harmonies are the primary musical means of emotional connection (obviously drums also play a major role too). I connect most strongly with the harmonic narrative that develops from about 3:18 to 5:28. If I put part of the emotion into words I’d say I hear Hope and Defiant Protection of Beauty. Those are definitely a part of my emotional bag, so I connect.

The progression, the artistic journey, as you continue to compose and produce, is undeniable. Glad you’re sharing.

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#109

Thanks man. I saw this in the morning when I got up and it started out my day right. Appreciate you taking the time to listen.

It’s interesting you picked that up as the overall theme which helps me confirm I’m getting better at conveying my own feelings through the music. There was definitely something ethereal or more sacred about this one. Which is why I chose the name sky palace.

I like having my music speak for itself as much as possible. I’ve found that if I have to explain to someone the overall theme I was going for I fell short with conveying that.

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#110

Not sure if this should be another thread or not. But since this is the artist thread, I thought I’d pick the minds of fellow artists.

I’m overwhelmingly critical of my own art. Despite how hard I’ve tried I have a lot of trouble breaking this habit. I routinely step on my own creations. I legitimately get stressed when writing music and have to push through it. If I don’t force myself to sit down and write I’ll avoid it. It doesn’t seem right, but I don’t really know what the alternative is or how most people go about creating. I’ve probably been seriously working on music for 5 years now. Closer to 7 if you want to count my beginning stages where I procrastinated and couldn’t even get myself to sit down at my computer.

Is this a common struggle for any of you guys? I kind of see why some guys decide to turn to alcohol or drugs, getting out of your own way to create is difficult. Well it is for me at least.

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#111

Salvador Dali used hypnogogic or hypnopompic states as inspiration. I think he called the method Paranoid Critical.

Others just sit and do it.

I wish I knew what else to say. Have you thought about UA? Or other artist type subliminals?

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#112

I’ve thought of UA. I actually had UA in a few customs. My current custom has the music producer module in it which I thought would be enough with AM. But I’m wondering if Ascension and UA would be a better combo. I’m still unsure about Mogul in AM. If that’s helping or hurting me. I just went with the lighter build with my current custom to get my life together more and left out UA. But I’ve also realized I don’t lean heavily towards conventional business oriented stuff, I’m really just an artist at heart. I know business is important when it comes to music, but it’s not the primary goal such as someone building up a virtual storefront or something like that for a business. It’s a very different mentality.

I’ve rebuilt my customs too many times, I guess i just thought leaving it out would accelerate my results with AM but it has kind of made me feel listless.

Eh not the best time to evaluate, I’m going through a lot right now.

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#113

Often I find it useful to intervene on the level of physical experience. The narrative, storytelling mind is too good at creating these fake, forced-choice scenarios.

It has to be this or else it’s that

I can’t do this because I’m doing that

And so on.

It all seems incredibly logical and obvious in the moment, but most of it is just stuff we’re making up. Conditioned by the past and reinforced by emotional/physical states.

It’s the animal we are. Likes stories. And likes believing in stories.

But often, if you’re lucky, you can just press the ‘mute’ button. Let it talk if it wants to, but you’re on something else.

Take a hike.
Go swimming.
Put the focus onto someone else for a while.

They’re just less damaging ways of doing the same thing that the alcohol does:

Putting a muzzle on your out-of-control Prefrontal Cortex. Annoying genius that it is.

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#115

Digging through the crates of the past again tonight. Thank Dragon Reborn.

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#116

Your tracks always give me Bjork vibes. You’ve got that same ethereal quality to them and they’re structured but free to meander. Very relaxing.

You use nanostudio 2 right? I’m always curious when I listen to your tracks. Is it all programmed in or is some of it loops? I can’t imagine working on music with only one screen lol. Just seems like working on an ipad would be tough.

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#117

I love Bjork.

These older tracks were all made on Nanostudio v1. It was so much easier for me to work with than v2.

But it was also a different point in time. I think/hope that I’m in a kind of transitional phase right now. The beginning of some real shifting.

But it’s affecting my relationship to composing.

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#118

I play the keyboard on the screen as if it were a piano. Choosing different voices that I like from the many choices in the synthesizer. Sometimes I play around with the wave programming and various sound features to create a different voice. And I build up the rhythms layer by layer. You know, now that I think about it, it reminds me of collage-work.

What do you mean is it programmed or is some of it loops? My vocab may be a bit spotty.

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