Alpha discussion

[Fractal_Explorer]

Following the recent derailment in the ZP thread lol. I was really interested in hearing everyone’s thoughts on the whole alpha/beta dynamic.

I think we can all agree nobody here wants to be boxed in to some limited set of characteristics. But having said that the alpha/beta dynamic does have a role to play in how things unfold in life and any potential difficulties that might arise.

For example. Working for an employer you don’t like who mistreats you. Can you be alpha in that very situation? I’d argue no. If you left yes, that would be the alpha thing to do. But if you had to stay for family, money concerns, or in our most recent case a global pandemic then I’d say you have to be “beta” in order to keep your job. But it’s really just playing the beta, not truly embodying those qualities.

Ideally we all live self fulfilled lives where we don’t need to play that part. But in my case as I’ve grown it’s gotten harder and harder to play that role because it feels in gross misalignment with how I feel my life should be. In my experience the more of those alpha traits I take on, the harder it can get to integrate without it feeling like something is rubbing me the wrong way. That’s not to say I’m a shining example of confidence, but continual sub usage has something bubbling underneath the surface that wants to be expressed and hasn’t yet.

[Simon]

@Fractal_Explorer

Working for an employer you don’t like who mistreats you. Can you be alpha in that very situation? I’d argue no. If you left yes, that would be the alpha thing to do. But if you had to stay for family, money concerns, or in our most recent case a global pandemic then I’d say you have to be “beta” in order to keep your job. But it’s really just playing the beta, not truly embodying those qualities.

Or you can be an Alpha who knows how to navigate/control the boss with PCC/HOM skills.

Or the Alpha Master of Peace & Love – with Heartsong / Love Bomb / Sanguine.

Or … you’re right. An Alpha wouldn’t allow himself to get into such a situation in the first place.

---

I’ll go catch up on the ZP thread.

[pacman]

Nice discussion!

Strange that this discussion comes out now since I have been going through the same nonsense all the time at work.

I see the problem of being a situational alpha is that it really grooms you slowly to take on the beta male mindset all the time. Thus when it’s time to be alpha you have forgotten how and therefore lack the confidence to do just that.

I am also aware that you can’t be all alpha and take on your boss since that will get you fired.

[Grimm1390]

If you work for a employer who mistreats you the alpha thing to do would be to use your backbone and let them know with words or actions or both that being mistreated will not be tolerated.
The nice guy bets thing to do would be to let them to continue to walk all over you.
Just a observation but the alpha traits could be rubbing you the wrong way because you been a certain way all your life, so the alpha way is making you uncomfortable

[ksub]

@Fractal_Explorer

For example. Working for an employer you don’t like who mistreats you. Can you be alpha in that very situation? I’d argue no. If you left yes, that would be the alpha thing to do. But if you had to stay for family, money concerns, or in our most recent case a global pandemic then I’d say you have to be “beta” in order to keep your job.

That is actually simple and it’s not really an alpha or beta situation. It’s a strategy thing. They mistreat you and you don’t like the job. You can quit. But if you have to stay there because you have a family to take care of. Then stay there but start working on your exit plan. If you try to stand up for yourself and speak up, you might very well get fired. Being alpha is also about having the mental fortitude to go through things like that. My opinion is that you should start working on your exit plan, find a new job even it pays a bit less and just get out of that place. There is no point in trying to be alpha in a toxic environment.

[Hoppa]

@Fractal_Explorer

For example. Working for an employer you don’t like who mistreats you. Can you be alpha in that very situation? I’d argue no. If you left yes, that would be the alpha thing to do. But if you had to stay for family, money concerns, or in our most recent case a global pandemic then I’d say you have to be “beta” in order to keep your job. But it’s really just playing the beta, not truly embodying those qualities.

Or. You notice the crappy situation you are in. Then during evening/ whenever you search for new job/ build a side hustle/ whatever, so that you can move away from that situation eventually. Instead of “accepting your fate” and being stuck there for the rest of your life.

Nothing wrong in choosing your battles wisely.

Edit: @ksub said it first.

[Fractal_Explorer]

This is what I’m talking about though. Have you personally done this? In theory yes, in practical application not always the best plan of action. The boss is the alpha in this situation because he controls the resources. This is the nuance and dynamics in social interaction that get muddied when it comes to beta and alpha behavior.

[Grimm1390]

I’ve done it with co workers never done it with a boss. I never had a boss disrespect me. In my opinion the alpha thing, masculine thing to do regardless of someone’s status or position, is if they disrespect you, or mistreat you, you let them know that’s unacceptable behavior. But if you need the job because you got to put food on the plate, then it’s understandable for someone to tolerate the boss because they need the job. Situations like that I really don’t look at it though as alpha or beta if you need the job/ money and can’t afford to quit so you have to put up with it.

[ksub]

@Fractal_Explorer

Have you personally done this?

Yes, yes and yes!!! 3 times I walked away from jobs that I didn’t like and where I wasn’t appreciated or respected. 2 of the 3 times, I didn’t have a back up plan. And I didn’t even know that I was going to quit that day. When the disrespect became too obvious, I knew that if I didn’t quit that day, I would have punched my supervisor in the face and I would have been arrested. That how bad it was! At the end of the day I just walked out and didn’t even give resignation notice. One time, I already had a new job lined up. I didn’t give a resignation notice to that company either.
The times I didn’t have another job waiting for me were the most challenging ones because I have a family. All those things happened before I started seriously running subs and years before Sub Club. I was still a major beta male. But even beta males have pride.
Here is my advice : start interviewing for jobs right now, if you find one that’s good enough, take it and move on with your life, your self-esteem will appreciate that. And even if you find another, start building a side business. You always need at least 2 or 3 streams of income anyway.

[Fractal_Explorer]

With respect to everyone posting here, the advice is good but it glosses over the discussion of those smaller dynamics.

I didn’t mean alpha/beta as a personal identity thing. I meant behavior wise. I think beta just has a lot of baggage tied to it. It’s NOT a bad thing. But if it’s not congruent with who you are, it causes friction in how you have to behave sometimes. That’s what I was getting at.

Yes leaving a job is the simplest solution. But in that time you have to build an exit strategy or just quit. But without a plan you can end up in the same situation. And during building an exit strategy you still have to interact in this job. With an expectation from some higher up for you to exhibit beta behavior which is in direct opposition with what is being instilled in your mind with a sub like Ascension or Emperor.

Yes this is over thought, but this whole thread was meant to be a discussion not really “I have a problem and need solutions” type thing.

[pacman]

@Fractal_Explorer

With an expectation from some higher up for you to exhibit beta behavior which is in direct opposition with what is being instilled in your mind with a sub like Ascension or Emperor.

I know exactly what you mean and I have been having this happen to me all the time.
It’s extremely frustrating at times. I also think lots of my anger comes from what you had just said.

[Fractal_Explorer]

It makes sense there would be a lot of anger in that situation. But yes, I think a lot of the growth from these subs environment does matter. It’s not always so cut and dry. Some people are also starting from a better foundation. Some are growing in situations where people treat you as the “old” you.

[pacman]

Anger will only subside when you are the alpha in the environment or situation.

[Beowulf]

To me, the actual essence of the discussion in question is about how a difference in a rising of your internal state is incongruent with your external state, leading to frustration and anger; and whether it is worth maintaining a non-desirable external state in order to maintain a sense of stability and safety in your life.

I guess the conundrum here is whether somebody who wishes to remain in a sense of stability and safety feels it is worth seeming weak to make sure they’re able to survive. I can only say that the most “Alpha” behaviour to do in this scenario is to do what’s best for that person in the long-run. If you have to seem weak and grovel to your boss to maintain your position in your job and you have no exit strategy, then it’s actually the most Alpha thing to do to me. Now of course, the person has to weigh whether it’s worth feeling incongruent with their true-self in order to live. The only thing I can say is that it depends, whatever leads to the best possible outcome is Alpha.

@Fractal_Explorer

I think we can all agree nobody here wants to be boxed in to some limited set of characteristics. But having said that the alpha/beta dynamic does have a role to play in how things unfold in life and any potential difficulties that might arise.

I don’t really subscribe to this idea of Alphas and Betas, since by subscribing to it you essentially have to believe all of life has to be a power dynamic tug-of-war. I know that’s what a lot of people believe, so I won’t argue about that. But it’s entirely possible that both the employee and the boss can have a desirable win-win scenario, in which case who is the “Alpha”? The one who wins more?

[BLACKICE]

@Fractal_Explorer

Following the recent derailment in the ZP thread lol.

@ksub

start building a side business. You always need at least 2 or 3 streams of income anyway.

That’s where I am right now. I’ve read the average millionaire has 7 different streams of income… I’m at 2 streams, so I have a few more streams (and a lot more dollars…) to go. My new wealth custom is designed solely to help me spin up new streams of income.

@Beowulf

But it’s entirely possible that both the employee and the boss can have a desirable win-win scenario, in which case who is the “Alpha”? The one who wins more?

In short, the one who feels most comfortable with the outcome; if someone feels pressured or coerced but goes along with it anyway, that’s more beta. Or maybe the boss is just an angry beta with power to wield, so the person who walks away confidently is more alpha.

There’s definitely a balancing act required, sometimes an alpha would need to acquiesce to an undesirable situation because not doing so would be irrational or petulant. Things like paying a parking or speeding ticket, for example. A beta would have a “blame game” mindset to divert responsibility to anywhere but themselves, whereas an alpha would own the situation and pay the fine. (Assuming it wasn’t actually an error, of course.)

[Palpatine]

Given that I identify more and more with my namesake as time goes on, I definitely think @Simon is right.
The Alpha (capital fucking A) thing to do would be to use PCC/HOM skills and take that boss’ job with extreme prejudice.

[Beowulf]

@BLACKICE

In short, the one who feels most comfortable with the outcome; if someone feels pressured or coerced but goes along with it anyway, that’s more beta. Or maybe the boss is just an angry beta with power to wield, so the person who walks away confidently is more alpha.

Ah but let’s say that both people confidently, comfortably got something they wanted and had a desirable outcome. Are they both Alphas? If yes, then there isn’t always the dynamic of an Alpha/Beta when multiple people are involved (or it may not truly exist at all). If not, then it’s hard to see who plays the roles here. Of course, one could say one could be a Beta or Alpha in one’s own life but when it involves others, must it be a win-lose game?

[pacman]

We also need to consider that there is a lot of social under currents that bosses and CEO use on lower level staff. I think that’s more damaging than the actual alpha beta struggle.

[Hoppa]

@Beowulf

Ah but let’s say that both people confidently, comfortably got something they wanted and had a desirable outcome. Are they both Alphas? If yes, then there isn’t always the dynamic of an Alpha/Beta when multiple people are involved (or it may not truly exist at all). If not, then it’s hard to see who plays the roles here. Of course, one could say one could be a Beta or Alpha in one’s own life but when it involves others, must it be a win-lose game?

It isn’t a competition.

There can be several alphas in one group. If everyone is comfortable in their skin and not just trying to please the others, it’s entirely possible for all of them to be alpha.

It’s a matter of self control. And alpha doesn’t mean bully either. Bullying others is a sign of weakness to me. There is no need to try to dominate everyone else.

You just know your self worth and you don’t take shit. Or if you have to take shit due to the situation you are in (imagine you are a prisoner of war in WW2 in Japan) you don’t allow that shit to affect your self worth. You might have to bow down your head, be humiliated, whatever. You just don’t let it affect your psyche.

[pacman]

@Hoppa

You just know your self worth and you don’t take shit.

How do you define that?

A small scenario
A coworker keeps belittling you in terms of work related tasks. Basically forcing tasks on you. That same particular coworker is the boss’s pet. Now what?