Action Vs Placebo? Action for intangible results?

Hi All

So this has been on my mind for a while and I feel if I don’t ask ill be letting it spin endlessly for no reason. There are 2 questions and I need to explain each to explain fully so hopefully you will enjoy reading and will reply. Thanks.

1 - Action Vs Placebo?
When I used subs before from other companies, hardly any recognition or time was spent on the case of taking action so this is why getting my head around this concept is taking time.

When i read books in the past by self help gurus, they always spoke of Affirmations or self hypnosis (also known as alpha wave self programming otherwise) to change internal beliefs and thoughts.

They said that by changing your beliefs and thoughts you then change how you feel and this then changes your behaviour and this then changes your actions and thus your results or something like this.

So all the years ive tried anything it was under the understanding that if I can believe a concept/affirmation then i will eventually change the behaviour due to the feeling and thus take action. To change the internal script meant using hypnosis or affirmations or subliminals.

I thought the same with subliminals too until i came here where the need to both journal and take action are emphasised.

I see the merits of journalling both for the subclub company in having an active forum and in also having a place to journey the change both for our-self the sub listener and the others reading for confirmation and belief the subs work, but with action i’m a little confused.

When you have a sub to help you, I understand due to someone’s explanation that when you take action you may take 30 steps to reach level 1 but when you perhaps listen to a sub it will help you get there in 10steps.

The question is even if you listen to a sub or you do not, how do you know its not simply the action that got you there and you are giving credit to the sub which is simply a Placebo?
Put in another way, how do you know its the sub or simply the act of moving towards a goal that got you to the level/success/result that you noticed?

We all know that even if you are afraid to go somewhere or are taking forever to get somewhere, either the fear of a deadline will make you race towards it (us procrastinators understand this very well) or the sheer act of moving a little towards the goal may get you to reach the flow state where it feels easier to reach or if not easier you at least reach the goal 1 step at a time.

So again how do you know its the action rather than the sub? or another way how do you know it is the sub and not simply the act of taking action to that goal?

2 - Action for intangible results?
This second question came to my mind not as early as the first but it makes sense to ask this too.

I understand that taking action for a tangible result will help you get to the end result 1 way or another. For example if you want to lose weight or build muscle you will exercise. Whether you listen to a sub or not that’s 1 way for example in the most simplest way. Whether the sub helps or its the action of course leads back to the 1st question above.

However what if its an intangible result? Such as with the healing subs such as Limit Destroyer that removes limiting beliefs, what action is one to take with such a sub?

Or any of those healing subs?

In my case with Ascension, the anxiety and discomfort of moving towards a goal, the fear of trying due to ridicule of my appearance or lack of knowledge (poor grades due to cramming meaning forgotten knowledge) causes me to stop. Have I pushed beyond these fears to reach a goal, well yes many times without a sub but wouldn’t Ascension work at dispelling these feelings and thoughts and fears whether I take action or not?

If there are any other subs here that ask for what i’m calling intangible results, such as physical shifting or feeling a certain way, well what actions are you to take that helps you know its the action needed for that sub?

I hope all this made sense and sorry if it didnt but i really hope i get some clarity on these confusions.

Thanks all


And how’d that work out for you? :wink:

Here’s the thing (and I’m writing this not just for you specifically).

The field has majorly stagnated - it is stuck in the same old, rehashed modalities of affirmations, hypnosis and subliminal technology from the 90’s.

That very thinking of “if I change my beliefs, then I’ll take action” is an outdated thinking stemming from that very same, stagnated mindset that gets you nowhere, the mindset that you want to work on.

There is no innovation. No desire to look further, deeper. Just the same old rehashing and copying.

Same old affirmations, same old hypnosis, same old subliminal technology. Same old results.

We have this marvelous technology of the modern world, and the many years, decades and ages of human history at our fingertips. The wisdom of countless cultures across the world are hiding behind a simple flick of a mouse.

And yet we are still repeating the same old “I’m enough” from Oprah.


We don’t do that. We do our own research - and in our research, we know for a fact that action and journaling is an integral part of the process.

While we will, without question, work towards creating the subliminal technology as close as possible to immediate, effortless results, it is an undeniable fact that action, the very building block of physical reality, is one of the missing keys in this beautiful, ancient, but now neglected field that we are actively reviving. Some rare gurus knew this, and would say to take action. How? By “acting the part”. That is their way of saying to take action.

The other key is, of course, the knowledge, expertise, technical know-how and innovation to create the most potent technology possible.

Simply put, it’s not enough to repeat an affirmation 500 times a day.

It’s also not enough to just dream about achieving your goal.

But combine a potent subliminal technology while taking daily action, and you will see profound, mind-blowing things happen before your eyes.

Just like you said here:

Now, placebo is often such a misused word. As we know from the very field that we are in, words have power. And placebo is a powerful word.

You say placebo, and you don’t think scientific placebo. You think “fake” or “ineffective”.

It’s not about testing something. It’s about a fear of it not working - that is the actual meaning behind your use of placebo (reconciliation).

There’s no need for that. Be truthful - this is a process, a process of transformation, a process of digging deeper into the meaning and words you put out into this world - a process that you can use in healing subliminals, like here:

And while that is subtle, it’s not intangible.

Subtle is powerful, and the mind is subtle. But it’s not intangible. You reading these words is something tangible.

That is why results can at times seem “intangible”. Because they are working with the subtle, creating change outwards. With time, this “subtleness” creates mind-boggling change in what you would say is obvious.

But you must be willing to take action to allow this process to happen, because by taking action, you are “confirming” what the process is attempting to do. It is your stamp of approval to the subconscious mind.

How do you know if it’s the sub or the action?


Compare yourself after subliminals and before subliminals.

Journaling is the answer.

It is a subtle art and reconciliation makes it harder because of the effect it has on your mind. You are moving mountains of subconscious material, of course the dust is going to cloud your judgment for a bit. But that is the beauty of journaling - it helps you see through all of that, and when you look back, you realize how different you are compared to before.

We’ve seen it happen countless times before. We’ve run the tests and the experiments, and we’ve seen obvious, remarkable change. We’ve seen it happen to countless of our customers, testers, friends, family and even ourselves.

But the fact of the matter is, you’re not going to believe me until you experience it for yourself.

The question is, are you willing to have the courage and take action while listening?

Are you brave enough to truly become who you desire to be, and achieve that which you’ve dreamed of?


I have run subs from other companies, not many, just a few, before SC.

They were effective.

But SC feels totally different.

For example:

This is my first washout after a ZP cycle.

I’m having some kind of “OCD attack”…but contrary to other times, it is so light and i perceive it like in a distant second-plane that i have no other option that categorise it as some kind of reaction to the ZP cycle.

It’s like the “OCD module” in my brain resists its impending vanishing but its attacks are weaker.

@Fire I am grateful to see this in black in white. I do journal some on my own and a little on the website. Seeing this again I now get the feeling of how important journaling is in my receiving the benefits of Sub Club. Thank you and thank all who journal here. I have gained so much wisdom and understanding on how to direct my life. The lightbulb has been lit👍


I swear when I read @Fire 's response I imagined him like that Christian von Koenigsegg guy, he just knows.

I think it might be a good idea to add an actions list to the objectives as well so people have an idea of what to do to allow the sub to fully work for them

Maybe start the list with the easiest or simple actions and allow people to snowball from there


Have it start with the most integral action first and then other actions flow in a hierarchy afterwards


Guys. No. That’s way too much hand holding. You should be able to decide on your own what actions you need to take to achieve your goals.


Just look at the objectives and the main “features” of your title and list your goals accordingly. Then try to think of ways of achieving them. It’s as simple as that. Of course, it’s not mandatory, you’re going to get “some results” anyway but they will be random… usually. For instance, running Emperor Fitness has obvious goals so all you need to do is to set the right routines. But when it comes to say Stark, well, you need to think it through really thoroughly when listing your goals and by goals I don’t mean something like “I wish I was rich” but something like “I need to find a more suitable and better paying job” or whatever, it must be something specific and then think of a plan and just follow it.


It was more of a suggestion for other people whom have trouble taking actions and steps

I wasn’t really asking it for me haha

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This is totally a topic for another discussion completely but consider this. Rather than looking at the placebo effect as something to factor out when testing something (like a drug), how about studying it to find out how the human mind can achieve results almost as good as the actual treatment, just by believing we’re getting the result?? That is an amazing feat.

I mean science in general, not a suggestion for a SC research project. :sunglasses:



Ok, I think you may be over thinking the take action part.

I’ve been using Ascension for not even a week, I’ve barely been journaling, yet I can tell a difference in my behavior already.

I deliver furniture, and in the past, I would not fully express myself when interacting with people. Ascension empowers this type of action, which is something I desire for my life.

I’ve been getting strong “nudges” or feelings to start expressing myself more since I started listening to Ascension. That’s how your subconscious communicates with you, and when I take action by expressing myself more, I start to feel really good, which reinforces the programming of Self expression.

So, what type of action do you already take in your daily life that you would like to improve?

Once you’ve decided that, choose a sub that corresponds to your goal, and you’ll see for yourself how much the sub helps.

Just my 2 cents.


Oftentimes it’s the subtle things that make the difference. Whether it’s seduction or sales or network marketing or sports… some people work and work and bang their heads against the wall… yet another person is “just” successful working much less.
That’s the slight edge… subliminals give us that and no company spends more time, energy and money on building and scripting existing and new products.

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Firstly thank you so much Fire for replying. I was avoiding reading what you were going to say here in case it was a scolding (telling me off) for failing or something. It not being that is a major relief thank you and on top of that thank you for supporting me since ive come here as well as replying here and giving me your time and helping everyone else too. Im grateful!!

lol even though I imagine this is rhetorical I will say it didnt work for me at all. None of these or any previous subs ive used for years and years nor hypnosis nor affirmations have worked for me at all. Even vision boards didnt though my brother believes some of the easier stuff did come true such as him buying a dyson vacuum for the family home lol it worked for him not for me haha

I remember also doing affirmations via some online woman claiming to be a coach, 100s and 100s of times a day literally constantly thinking them in my head. Nothing changed.

All useless!

Yeah i hear you and grateful for you saying this as like I said I was dreading reading what you we’re going to say lol

I hear you so this is why im here in the hope my mindset can change for the better and success comes my way confidently and easily rather than from the fearful stance I currently have.

sorry which marvellous technology that is a flick of a mouse away, these subliminals from here?

how far away are you from this tech or from the next upgrade from ZP to another tech?

yes absolutely im absolutely afraid im listening to something that wont work on me and doesnt work on me because of everything in the past that has not worked for me and ive not grown beyond hard hard work and effort and real push all when fear suddenly disappeared because my insecurities, my fears are hard to push through when they are there. I cannot push through it myself.
Since you said Reconciliation, is this what this means, that due to Ascension this is what im dealing with right now?

So that was where I was wondering, what are the actions one must take when it comes to those ‘subtle’ subs such as healing ie Limit Destroyer for example? The healing subs seem like the kind of this no action can be done except for listening and allowing the sub to dig all the inner issues and dissolve them, right?

So if no action is taken but the sub is listened to for months, will nothing happen or change?

Thank you again for replying Fire, greatly appreciate it!

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yeah agreed, like the kind of actions that will help you whilst using that sub.

Some are obvious but the subtle ones such as limit destroyer make me wonder what would the action be etc.

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ah ok this makes sense i think too.

thanks buddy and im glad and amazed its worked so well for you that you can tell of those nudges.

So this is a sub recommended to me to get through the multitude of issues I have such as fear, insecurites, procrastination and so forth.

Im currently unable to see much action based on my daily grind being stuck at home looking after the family and its many responsibilities. As my journal shares, once I move out I hope and plan to work on myself without working on others goals (ie family) and hopefully will be taking daily action as i HAVE to anyway and I WILL BE ABLE TO at that stage. I cant go into more details about my personal family stituation except to say that I wanted to start a sub asap to build a momentum for when i am able to take action. If that makes sense at all.

Fire is talking about the internet


What you can do is make a separate thread asking the question “what actions can I take while running Limit Destroyer”? (Or Ascension or any other title). That way more experienced users can share what worked for them.

Another option is to put in a support ticket with that question.

Some ideas for what actions one can take running Limit Destroyer:

  • Take some time with a pen and paper and list down the limits that are most affecting your life.
  • If you have stage fright (as a limit for example) what can you do about it? Join a public speaking course. Join the debate team in your school/area. Socialise outside more often.
  • Practice meditation. It helps to detach you from your thoughts and emotions that lead to a lot of your limits.
  • Look for healing modalities that you resonate with. Some people practice EFT.

These are just off the top of my head. But I think you can see that there are so many tangible things you can do to destroy your limits.

And like Fire said, you will find it easier to do so when you “run subliminal + take action + journal”. The results are inevitable.


It’s impossible to take no action.

As long as you’re alive there will be some action. And therefore, the subs will likely still have some effect (even if its only slow, minimal, or primarily thought-based).

But action can be more effective or less effective, more strategic or less strategic, higher quality or lower quality, greater quantity or lesser quantity;

Aim for more effective, more strategic and higher quality action.

and let the sub help you to take action.


This 100,000%.

Did you know there are five different types of brain waves? Beta, Alpha, Theta, Delta, and Gamma (not shown in the image). We go through these stages on a daily basis, and based on your first post and how you respond to everyone, I believe you are often in the Beta stage.

My advice to you is to spend time meditating to Alpha and Theta waves, and your brain will start to produce more of those waves over time, which will help you stop overanalyzing things and find solutions more easily.

Alpha Waves

Alpha Waves 2

Theta Waves (This is my favorite!!!)

Meditation will help you be more present and self-aware, which is why I’m seeing rapid changes with the subs despite the fact that I’ve only recently started. I have a stronger connection to my subconscious mind, and you can too. You don’t have to sit for an hour; just do what you’re comfortable with and gradually increase it.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. - [Albert Einstein]

You must also look after yourself, and it seems that you are putting yourself last, which will have an impact on your mental health.

Instead of waiting for a better time, you can begin working on yourself right now. You say you’re focusing on family goals right now, but your personal goals are equally important, right?

Stack whichever subs you believe will help you in achieving your goals.

  • Eliminate and dissolve any internal sense fear, procrastination, doubt. Ascension: Become an Alpha Male Subliminal

  • Transform your inner state to that of pure confidence and power. Godlike Masculinity: Develop an Impenetrable Sense of Masculinity, Get Better Subliminal Results