Which sub(s) work directly on the "Nice Guy" syndrome?

man, there’s a whole lot in this topic. thanks for starting it @subliminalguy.

on the one hand, there’s the whole ‘nice guy’ issue, as mentioned in the topic heading. That by itself is a huge topic.

But then there’s also the part brought out by @Fractal_Explorer. In essence, what are the best ways to train major growth over time. Gentle, gradual training progressions? Intensive, grueling programs? And what about attentional emphasis and focus. Is it best to place emphasis on attainable goals? Emphasis on an ultimate, radically inspiring, long-term ideal?

Possibly various ratios of all of these elements and more.

One thing’s certain: It’s January 2020. Some people are using Emperor v4 (including me). Some are working with Ascension and Ascended Mogul. Personal growth (especially consciously driven personal growth) can be very idiosyncratic. But I’d still guess that these two groups may meet in the middle at some point. Ultimately, you have to listen to your own experience to determine how hard the program is driving you, and whether it’s really too much.

Both of these programs are, in part, about establishing Ego Strength (which is sort of the crux of what we’re talking about). We’ll have to keep observing and see just how this strengthening process works for different people.

A third point that also feels related to me and that may be a little more niche: Empaths. Like some people, I am relatively high in empathic orientation. Sensitive to, responsive to, and easily aware of certain aspects of people’s internal, experiential processes. I think this trait imparts some unique dimensions to the process of increasing ego strength and personal power. I don’t think it’s something to be crushed; just like I wouldn’t want to crush my sense of visual sight. I think the tricky lesson is learning to balance the information from outside with the needs and information from inside.

That seems to be part of my own Nice Guy journey. Maybe the biggest part. It feels like it’s not about other people. It’s about ME.

I get the sense that Regeneration, and Ascension would both be helpful with that. But I also think that those healing and strengthening elements are included in Emperor. Just in a less pinpointed way, and mixed with many other elements.

So I think that the choice to use Emperor or Ascension or Regeneration or whatever combination of all three is also connected to how urgent that specific issue—emotional healing—is for the individual. For me, for now, I’m sticking with Emperor. I’ve learned to cope with this stuff in my lifestyle. My coping was improving before I ever started using subliminals. So I don’t feel in critical need of an immediate ‘cure’. I think I’m okay to work with Emperor over a year or so on a variety of changes and projects, including but not limited to this ‘Nice Guy’ project.

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Not a subliminal but if you haven’t already I highly suggest you read no more mr nice guy and do the exercises he gives you. I’ve read that book a number of times over the years and I’m always learning new things. I’m currently reading dating essentials by the same author dr Robert Glover. It’s a book more then just dating it’s actually a book on anxiety and how your self beliefs etc hold you back from getting what you want. I’ve only read a few chapters but I can’t put it down just like I couldn’t put no more mr nice guy down when I first read it. I highly recommend you give these books a try and look up dr glover on YouTube he has tons of podcast up,also fearless man Brian recommends his book

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If you enjoy fearless man you will 100 percent enjoy Robert glover here’s a a podcast where fearless man interviews him

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Good stuff, @Grimm1390. I’m about an hour in.

at 51:15 of the video, Brian offers this bit of nuance

And I think there is benefit to having been a nice guy. You learn to really develop that feeling side of you. Then bring back your masculinity and put the two together. And stop being…

(He trails off there, and starts getting into a different topic. But I think it would be hilarious to know how he was going to finish that sentence. Maybe it would have started off with ‘such a…’ haha.)

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Thank you @Malkuth. I enjoyed your thought out reply. Personally, I haven’t had ambition to be a complete asshole because yes, being a complete asshole with aims to please a girl is, essentially, being a nice guy covertly. Thanks for sharing that possibility.

I have many signals and signs showing me I’m a nice guy. I could use anger as a front to counter it, but again, I agree it’s more about ego strength than my expression of anger. I grew up with a brother who showed a lot of anger all the time, and I was afraid of his unpredictable actions he’d use to get his way. He’s shared numerous times throughout the years that he always was a scared little boy inside using anger to get what he wanted. He was 180 from me, being an asshole most of the time, but regretting it later. His wife is now an ex, and his kids have tried to distance themselves. My brother has been in survival mode all his life, which signals he wasn’t solid; he was just scared. His expression was different.

Regarding Emperor, I listened last night using a set number of loops. I checked my bitcoin exchange my miner advised, but this exchange is doing nothing but stealing from me. Mr. nice guy (me) would normally sit, stew, and question MYSELF about being screwed, but after seeing my account, I messaged him angrily that I don’t want to mine there anymore since they take but avoid any explanations at all. I am NOT about being screwed. I’ve spoken up a few times, but a lot more since I’m with SC.

I know by my gut feelings that I’ve avoided speaking up since…my truth…I’d actually take responsibility for this. Being a nice guy (to me) means YOU are responsible for MY feelings and my choices. And that has been a core issue in me not growing up emotionally. Emperor has been challenging that consistently, shown by tears seeking to come out while admitting this. Damn. I’ve hidden this from myself over the years, but it gives me NO courage. It demasculates me.

How can one grow up if they’re constantly dodging it? They can’t. And I haven’t. Thank God Emperor doesn’t agree with this.

@Grimm1390, I’ve not bought the book yet. But I did seek audiobook versions of it on YT 2 nights ago. I ended up watching the podcast I mentioned in my first post. I expected someone to mention that book earlier. And thanks for sharing links here. I’ll check them out tonight when I’m home from work. I’m needing to get out the door now. MUCH appreciated.

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What @Malkuth said essentially. It’s all about living from the real Self

Nice guy behaviours are rooted in fear of “what if they don’t like the real me”. So you develop a false persona to try to get your needs met. But the absolute root is a failure to bond appropriately with parents.

Once that attachment trauma can be healed, the core shame of being a man can also be resolved.

Personally, Regeneration and Ascension have cracked the code. But from there, any alpha sub can build on that stable platform.

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Want to try that some day.

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@Michel @Malkuth haha lots of golden nuggets in that video. Also nice guys don’t like to rock the boat. They try to do everything perfect to avoid conflicts. glover says nice guys are men without a dick basically. These men myself included glover says we feel deep down that we are unworthy and unlovable. Many of us self sabotage because in our core or subconscious we feel we don’t deserve xyz.
I can go on and on on this topic. Nice guys never realize there potential as well. My entire life I’ve felt I’ve underachieved and felt like I could do more if I didn’t have these anxiety issues, shame,etc
This is quote from dating essentials
“ In No More Mr. Nice Guy, I discuss the effects of “Toxic Shame” as it relates to the Nice Guy Syndrome. Toxic shame is the deeply held, unconscious belief that you are bad, defective, or unlovable. It is the result of the inaccurate internalization of life events from birth on.”

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I think the label ‘Nice Guy’ is almost like a brand. We know what it’s referring to, so it works, but it’s actually not the most accurate label.

Because the opposite of a ‘Nice Guy’ isn’t a mean guy; it’s a guy at home in himself. That means that what we’re really talking about are guys who are not at home in ourselves.

We’ve already pretty much been around the block discussing these points in the posts up above; but this still seems like a pretty important point to restate. The label could be misleading to someone who doesn’t understand. The goal is to develop self-worth independent of the judgments of others, and to become more and more at home in and celebratory of your own experience. Basically, the goal is to enjoy proactively facing and living your life (the ups and downs, the pains and joys).

I think the ‘nice guy’ label is like a motivational thing. Because a lot of us guys are motivated to get moving when we think we have to beat some foe and not be wimpy. So, if it helps guys to get moving to better ourselves, I can abide the inaccuracy.

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If you’re a nice guy, your not really nice…

SHAME ON YOU, PATHETIC MAN!

The Nice Guy ™ brand is already being tainted by the recipients of said behaviour - women. When men already feel inadequate about being their masculine selves, here comes society to add more to the already unhelpful shame messages…

I prefer the term coined by Ross Rosenberg, self love deficit disorder. As unwieldy as it is, there’s no shame in admitting it, plus the solution is evident.

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Emperor will make you an asshole. In a good self-loving and logical way. So that’s the way to go. Also I would recommend Primal Seduction for inner calmnes & it instills action taking regarding females.

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I’m curious what a combination of Ascension and PCC will do not just eliminating nice guy behavior at it’s core but to become confident and powerful in whatever industry or path you choose. I just found my next stack

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If you go the ascension route I recently used it for a week only and it made me very assertive almost to the point where it was as if I was looking for a fight. If someone said something in a tone I didn’t like, someone looked at me, someone tried to show dominance over me I would Not back down. I had to watch my mouth because it would have got me in trouble. I experienced something similar when I first joined sub club and chose ascension as my first product. Ascension works very fast btw

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That’s interesting.

Have you ever run Regeneration?

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I’ve never used regeneration I’ve used khan st1 though

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I’ve been running Regeneration a bit to balance Emperor out. I’m still in bed as I woke up feeling shame, wishing to avoid it, but I’ve had these ideas I’ve wanted to share here, so here I am.

I watched half of the Dr. Glover video yesterday, and I ruminated on a single point he brought up. He pointed out that nice guys seem to hang on to a lot more pain than others (rough paraphrase). Something I noticed and have felt shame owning is that I identified myself as a shameful person ages back. I wondered why that is in my life. People get worn out hearing someone stuck in shameful thinking, and this just creates more shame.

For me, the identification was due to shame being the most available and most consistent thing in my life growing up. I had a mom deeply ashamed of herself, no dad, living on welfare, the whole package. I read John Bradshaw’s “Healing the Shame that Binds You” 2 years back, and he used a word which is slipping my mind now, but children just (absorb) their parents’ shame unknowingly. I didn’t even have to do something wrong to feel shame. I owned my mom’s shame since she was my main caretaker. I’ve thought it mine, and my nice guy ruse is primarily a way of me dancing around others so they won’t see this. It creates a lot of hiding, lying to myself, sabotaging female relationships (for me), and yeah, more shame.

It’s a stressor to bring this up and revisit memories while writing, and my desire is for @Fire and @SaintSovereign to see connections here and possibly integrate some counter and reframing measures into future subs.

For me, being honest has helped disempower my shame the most. This is my story.

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Attending to the fact that most Nice Guys had bad or inadequate connections with their parents, that would be the very first thing to deal with. I’d dare say that the majority of Nice Guys™ received negligent /abusive parenting.

From inadequate parenting gives rise to toxic shame - the shame of being oneself added to the inherited shame from others.

I’m wholly biased but Regeneration/Elixir would do the most in solving the Nice Guy riddle. Building a skyscraper requires the skeletons to be exhumed first.

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To add:

I see the effects of not addressing early parenting everyday with family. The walking wounded looking to others to solve their pain, looking to shiny trinkets to boost their egos, trying to be controlling, “perfect” or “right” in someone else’s mind. It’s sad to see.

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I would definitely say yes. However , I’m not using PCC yet. I have been reading @Michel’s journal, and he speaks very highly of it in using it for self protection

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PCC + Khan

PCC has extra scripting that links in with Khan, you would definitely succeed in corporate politics.

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