Which Sub(s) to choose? Advice please :)

Questions and Comments
#1

Hi everyone, this is only my 3rd post on this website. A true veteran, I know :slight_smile:

I’m having difficulty choosing 3 ZP Subs to stack.

Background info:
I am looking to transform my life, health, financial and emotional situation by the end of this year.
I’ve studied/practiced life coaching for 20 odd years and recently joined a kind of ‘mastermind’ group, focused on holistic life transformation (with the stated group goal to achieve this by the end of this year).
I’m also in the process of starting an online business with the goal of achieving financial freedom by the end of this year (which is also a part of the aforementioned mastermind group goal).

I have autism, with a very strong ‘demand avoidance’ component, that makes it incredibly hard to start taking any action (even when I really want to) and equally hard to maintain it.

I have chronic fatigue; my doctor (a GP who also has specialist knowledge about chronic fatigue) said that my chronic fatigue is basically down to my autonomous nervous system (parasympathetic? I forget) being in a state of permanent stress and oversensitivity.

And added this in itself has been a result of trauma/abuse in childhood and adulthood, which has led to a kind of extreme 'fight or flight syndrome, being perma-dialled up to 11, tense and on edge much of the time, so of course there’s going to be an aspect of needing to deal with underlying emotional healing too.

I’d add that one ‘positive’ about the illness is that I am not working in a job and have a great deal of time and space to focus on trying to heal and achieve my goals.

After journalling and thinking a lot about this in the last couple of days, I can say:
in terms of Sub choices, my biggest goals are overcoming procrastination and avoidance so that I start taking consistent actions every day, healing my nervous system, becoming financially free and healing/dealing with limiting beliefs, negative subconscious thinking and trauma.

I’m hoping to have rapid results, that enable and empower me (and remove barriers that are hindering me) to attain financial freedom, heal my health and in general go about transforming my life.

I should add that I understand and appreciate that, whilst I want rapid results as described above, I am aware that further work on these areas of trauma, limiting beliefs, mindset etc will doubtless need to be done on a longer-term basis too. But I need a quick start, a rocket to get me started and build some momentum, addressing the primary blockages hindering me as part of that process.

My plan is to take 3 ZP subs in a stack. Probably new Emperor is going to be the main one, and I plan to stick with that one for at least 6-9 months or longer.

For the other two, at least 2 months (or cycles each), and maybe then swapping one out for another.
All that depends on the results I’m getting by then and what my journalling, intuition and so forth are telling me to do. My problem is, even after narrowing it down ruthlessly through journalling, reading around on here and so on, I still have a final shortlist of at least 4 subs, I don’t have enough ‘stack slots’ to do them all :sweat_smile:

Emperor, Paragon, DR:LD, Emperor Executive. This is what I’ve narrrowed it down to.
I should add, that, aside from the goals mentioned, I have a very strong need and desire for healing of masculinity and developments of all traits associated with it. I’d love to do the sex and seduction subs too, but again, no slots left! This place is too great, with too many amazing choices :smiley:

That’s kind of why I want to make Emperor my main sub and keep it long term; since it addresses many of the goals I first stated, as well as covering these other ones I just mentioned, so it’s a great all-rounder with a proven reputation.

Also, I know the Paragon product description says something along the lines of “whatever your illness, we’ve got it covered here”, but I wanted to ask whether this would be the best product for trying to heal my autonomous nervous system?

Because I saw that Quantum Limitless phase 1 has a specific focus on healing the nervous system (hence my question). And if the issue causing the nervous system problem is past trauma, then Phoenix or DR:LD seem appropriate too.

Speaking of which, based on what I’ve said so far, would Phoenix or DR:LD be better?
If it helps you to advise me, of course I want deep emotional/psychological healing, but overcoming procrastination, limiting beliefs and any other emotional/mental factors that hinder me from taking action and feeling confident to take action, or confident that I’ve got what it takes to succeed, would be more important and urgent right now.
Deeper healing can wait until I’m financially free and having a holiday :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

Anyway, this has turned into an essay with the need to provide as much necessary info as possible!
If you’ve read this far, I thank you and salute you :smiley:
All advice on choice of Subs would be greatly appreciated :slight_smile:

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#2

As far as Phoenix or DRLD, just pick one try it for a few cycles, then try the other one for a few cycles. Then when you get a better idea of which one you prefer, you can stick with that one.

Both are great. DRLD has confidence scripting and that’s what I’ve been using. I really like it but I’ve got to take it slow to not get overwhelmed with recon. It’s powerful, both are.

If you want the fast results, you’ll want to take a dive into Phoenix first. DRLD can be fast too, but Phoenix might be the winner for if you just want to go for it.

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#3

Honestly,

For your goals you’ve narrowed it down quite well. Great job on that.

I would keep Emperor & Emperor Executive as a perm place, and switch the 3rd sub. So you can do Paragon, LD and Phoenix switches.

For multi stagers like QL etc, it’s best to run them solo but you can add that too stack as 3rd as well but you should do it 3+ cycles before switching out imo.

I’ve used phoenix for a while. It is quite strong but in your overall goals I think LD would be better & less likely to switch with LD.

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#4

Thanks for your quick reply! :slight_smile:
That’s interesting; one of the reasons I was leaning towards DR:LD over Phoenix was that it seemed like DR:LD was more tightly focused, with a narrower range of targeted outcomes, and hence I thought it would be the one that produced faster results!

Can I ask what led you to the opposite conclusion? It would be helpful to hear your thoughts on this :slight_smile:

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#5

Thank you for your reply and your kind words, much appreciated!

If I could just do a 4-sub stack, all my problems would be solved, haha.
But I absolutely appreciate the reasons behind the stack protocol and the need for time and space to let the subs embed themselves and do their work.

Your conclusions are largely matching mine. I’m still not sure though… decisions decisions… :sweat_smile:

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#6

I’d say do EMP, EE, LD for two cycles, then switch to EMP, EE, PH for two cycles again, and then Paragon.

and then once you’ve liked one of the three (PH, LD, or Paragon) create a custom with all 3 as cores or better yet, you can create a custom of EMP & EE together (Better for beginner custom users), you can then run LD & Paragon together.

There will be better options from members soon hopefully.

1 Like
#7

Hello –

I personally wouldn’t start with any of the intense titles before doing some deep groundwork. I’d recommend – before buying or jumping into anything – focusing on self-worth. You can do that without purchasing anything by trying Genesis: The Art of Happiness and Joy, stacking it with A Love Bomb For Humanity.

Those more intense titles are generally for people who have managed to create some sort of inner stability that they can rely on in hard times. The Art of Happiness and Joy is designed to do just that, infuse your daily life with a deep sense of satisfaction and self-worth. While A Love Bomb for Humanity is designed to help you project love outward, this is accomplished by first instilling a deep sense of love within yourself.

As for the issues regarding chronic fatigue, Paragon COULD help but usually these are the results of a very deep sense of depression and trauma (but please consult a qualified mental health professional). I once suffered from what I thought was this, but through somatic and energetic training (in my case, Qigong – or technically pre-neidan) has helped resolved a lot of those issues, as well as journaling and music therapy. You can use those AI music tools to create tracks that appeal just to you as long as they inspire you to get up and make it through the day. Also helps release stress, trauma and tension very holistically.

In many situations, once you start working on the deep trauma, the monetary and fatigue issues will start to resolve themselves, as we’ve recently started to recognize a connection between wealth acquisition and self-worth, where people are unconsciously limiting their wealth potential because their “inner wealth” is being ignored. In other words, they unconsciously believe that they are not “worthy” of wealth due to their internal state – something that the body and energetic work has helped with. Spiritual practice (if you’re inclined toward that) seems to help as well.

While this is a great goal, my personal advice as an entrepreneur (and I’m not saying I’m “right,” just sharing my experience) is to set a realistic target of like 2-3 years. Doesn’t mean you can’t be completely self-sufficient in a year, but I’ll share that it took this company quite a few years to reach that level. We just kept refining our products and services and refused to look back or stop.

Please be cognizant of this when using subliminal audio. Please ensure that you have the guidance of a qualified mental health specialist. I too, was given the label of “demand avoidance” when I was younger, and as an adult, I realized that it was more of a protective measure to fight against the abuses of power that I experience (and to an extent, even today as people attempt to do the same thing). However, I am much more aware and cognizant of it and I make my decisions solely on if I want to do something or not, rather than allowing an external influence guide my decisions.

Approach subliminal audio with the exact same manner. It is – after all – an external influence that gets filtered through your own internal mechanisms. So, it’s good that you recognize the propensity for demand avoidance, but note that in my case, I sometimes have triggered recon by fighting my own subliminal audio scripts, haha. Hence, microloops.

Start VERY slow. 30s maximum, then build up over time to help you gauge your reactions as well as deeply explore your inner life. That’s what subliminal audio – at least our products – actually are. An exploration of the self. For me, slow and methodical but gradual progress is the right path.

Try a microloop, then go for a nice relaxing walk in nature on a sunny day focusing on calming the nervous system to retrain it. Pamper yourself. I know a lot of us prefer intense experiences and hate things like the words “release” or “surrender,” but it has been extremely helpful in my case and with others.

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Niles: The Deep End
#8

since part of a subliminal’s effectiveness comes from not knowing what’s in the scripts and therefore not having conscious resistance to it (right?? or am i crazy?) do you ever feel like your subconscious reacts more negatively to certain processes because you know what’s occurring?

#9

It’s just a personality quirk that some of us have. I’ve mentioned this before, I’m actually a semi-hard gainer with “demand avoidance,” which for me means that I need a lot of time to contemplate anything that I’m exposed to.

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#10

I’m going through a similar situation.
Life coaching since 2020, procrastination since like forever.
This feeling of wasting my potential completely.

I made very good progress using SC subs, only procrastination didn’t improve much.
For this, your biggest chance is Emperor Executive since it has a lot of special features for neurodivergant folks like us.

One sub I’d like to add is Ecstasy of Gold Stage 1.
It has a feature called “Worthiness Calibration” that is focused on healing self worth issues.
Also a lot more for healing other financial issues.

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#11

Hello and I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a long and considered response!

I’m completely new to subliminal tech and to this company, but as a newcomer, it speaks volumes regarding the kindness and integrity of yourself and the business that you’d go out of your way to advise and recommend free products to start with.

I’ve been mulling over your responses for the last few hours (and my responses to your reponses!).
Letting the thoughts, emotions, urges and resistances all percolate, waiting for clarity and insights to emerge. It’s a work in progress (isn’t everything?!), but I’m getting there :slight_smile:

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#12

Again, it’s really good to read this (in terms of shared experience, not that I’m happy to know your suffered, just to be clear!) :slight_smile:
Yes, I considered this and the idea of it being a protective measure seems likely to be a root of the problem.

Regarding another root, funnily enough, I had a kind of moment of clarity last night after writing my first message here.
It occurred to me that - for example - I have no problem spending hours reading through posts here and researching product descriptions, reviews and feedback, etc.
Equally no problem reading the Financial Times or the latest science research articles; I can spend an hour or more daily just keeping up to date with all the latest articles.
Or experimenting with different coffee beans and espresso making refinements (in terms of a practical and more physical activity).

I really want to improve my foreign language skills, guitar, maths and science skills etc etc.
But the demand avoidance kicks in massively there.

So I feel the ‘demand avoidance’ is more just a symptom of how I am mentally framing what I perceive to be the process involved with learning or improving a particular skill or area of knowledge.

The length of time required, the minutes or hours per day, the things likely to cause pain or difficulty.
The interaction between the desire for growth and development, and the consciously or subconsciously remembered pain of past failures or struggles (or failures to even get started). The already-extant limiting beliefs.

Still thinking about this, but the clarity is nice :slight_smile:

#13

Also, just to add that whilst I’m new to the subliminal world, I have been under the care of medical specialists for the chronic fatigue, autism, trauma etc for years, and have made quite a lot of progress with such things.

Additionally, with the 20-odd year background of life coaching and self-improvement, there’s been a gradual process of healing, reconciliation and mindset improvement, insights, distinctions and so on.
However, it’s a work that never ends - and never stops challenging and rewarding - and I do feel a lot of excitement around what things Subliminal Club may help to unlock, evolve and facilitate :slight_smile:

#14

Thank you for your reply, and I really resonate with your pain regarding the procrastination!
I’m recently starting to use meditation and cold showers now as tools to help with this (and general self-development). The more we push into discomfort and challenge, the more we start to let our conscious minds assert more influence over our subconscious thoughts and urges.
That’s the theory at least; let’s see how it progresses :smiley:

#15

Thanks again for this recommendation. I have downloaded Genesis just now.

Also, I was stuck between choosing Phoenix and DR: LD when I wrote the original post.
I just re-read the DR:LD product page and noticed it says at the bottom that “this stacks EXCEPTIONALLY well with Genesis”. That was encouraging, since I was leaning more towards DR:LD anyway lol.

I didn’t see any similar text on the Phoenix page though, so does this imply Phoenix would NOT be a good Sub to stack with Genesis (or at least, just not as well matched or synergistic as DR:LD? Just checking :stuck_out_tongue:

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#16

TL;DR:

You’re not stuck because you lack motivation.
You’re stuck because your nervous system doesn’t trust that action is safe.

You don’t need another sub.
You need to follow through on the one you just chose.

Genesis isn’t a feel-good sub.
It’s a state reset. A nervous system recalibrator.

Here’s what you do:

  • Run Genesis solo, 30 seconds every other day for Week 1

  • Anchor it to a 5-minute daily ritual (guitar, language, biz, doesn’t matter)

  • If you miss a day, post it publicly, not for shame, but to show your subconscious that action has consequence

  • No stacking, no optimizing, no second-guessing

  • Prove you can follow through without collapsing

DR:LD and Phoenix can wait.
The version of you that moves, can’t.

Start. Stabilize. Stick the landing. Then build the stack.

This builds identity through evidence, not effort.
No stacking. No optimizing. Just prove you can act without collapse.

Full protocol below.

Layman, you’re doing the thing again.

You just downloaded Genesis.
That was the move.
That was the shift.

And instead of running it, instead of giving your nervous system space to land, you’re already back in the stack comparison loop.

Not because you need a better option.
But because your subconscious is uncomfortable with finally making a decision.

Here’s the truth:

You don’t need to know whether DR:LD stacks better than Phoenix.
You need to run one sub and anchor one behavior, every other day, for 21 days.

That’s it.

No analysis.
No optimization.
No forecasting your future stack like it’s a portfolio.

This isn’t about picking the “perfect” second sub.
It’s about proving you can actually follow through on the first one.

You already made the right choice.
Now honor it.

Start Genesis.
Set your behavior anchor.
Don’t touch anything else for 21 days.

Phoenix can wait. DR:LD can wait.
The version of you that moves, can’t.

This is what I was going to post before I saw your new comment.

Layman, this is the clarity most people never get.

That realization, that you have no issue diving into hours of research, but freeze when it comes to skill acquisition or performance is your pivot point.

That’s not demand avoidance.
That’s protective identity preservation.

You’re not avoiding effort.
You’re avoiding the experience of being a beginner in domains where the consequences feel personal.

When you’re reading the Financial Times or tweaking espresso, there’s no scoreboard. No emotional risk.
But guitar? Language learning? Business?

Those carry the weight of:

“If I try and fail again, it confirms everything I’ve been trying to outrun.”

So your subconscious pulls the brake. Not because you’re broken.
But because it’s trying to protect your identity from evidence of inadequacy.

That’s why research feels productive.
But in truth, it’s just a simulation of progress without the cost of failure.

You don’t need a better mindset.
You need a system your nervous system can believe in.
And that starts with behavioral containers that are safe enough to enter, but structured enough to hold.

And this is where I’ll echo Saints’ recommendation, because he’s absolutely right.

Start with: Genesis: The Art of Happiness and Joy

Layman Protocol 1.0

1. Genesis: The Art of Happiness + Joy

This isn’t just a “feel good” sub.
It’s a state reset.

It gives your nervous system permission to relax long enough to try something, without collapsing under the weight of internal judgment.

It doesn’t hype you up.
It clears the noise that keeps you from even taking the first step.

Week 1 Stabilize & Observe

Goal: Create nervous system trust

  • Day 1: 30 seconds of Genesis
  • Day 2: Full rest
  • Repeat this rhythm for 7 days

Only increase loop duration if:

  • You feel zero emotional tension post-playback
  • You still take action on your 5-minute ritual that day
  • You’re not bracing, dissociating, or over-analyzing after listening

Focus: Calibrate your system. Don’t push. Just observe.

Reminder: This is not about progress. It’s about proof you can engage without collapse.

Start slow. Let the system breathe.

This is your inner calm builder, so your outer behavior can land without triggering system rejection.

2. Anchor Ritual (Behavioral Container)

Pick one emotionally weighted skill, language, guitar, business, math.
Now set a 5-minute daily container around it.

No expectations. No performance.
Just behavior that gently pressures identity.

You’re not building skill.
You’re building permission to act without fear of judgment.

3. Daily Rule (Consequence Loop)

If you miss the 5-minute action window, post it. Publicly.
No shame. No guilt.

Just proof to your subconscious that action matters.
That something actually happens when you don’t follow through.

That’s how new patterns get reinforced.
Not through desire.
Through visible consequence.

Why this works:

Because your subconscious doesn’t change from insight.
It changes when it sees proof that taking action didn’t destroy you.

And that’s what this system delivers.

Genesis: The Art of Happiness and Joy resets the nervous system.
The ritual reframes the threat.
The rule introduces controlled consequence, and consequence is what converts behavior into belief.

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#17

The entire Dragon Reborn series is just a hard title to run regardless of who you are or what level of inner development you’ve achieved. We’ve got some real bad asses here who have done years of it and the such, and those individuals must have an incredible level of resolve. Phoenix is a very condensed version of the DR series and as such, is much harder to wield. Limit Destroyer is more focused, and mostly revolves around the “destroy all limitations” functionality within the DR series.

That’s why I always recommend that people first use something to help soothe their mind and nerves, before jumping it. It’s legitimately a practical suggestion that isn’t based on anything other than the concept of “ensure that the soil is fertile before trying to grow,” which is what Genesis and LBfH is designed to do. You cannot build a house on an unsound foundation. It is always beneficial to stick to “beginner” titles (which is a faulty label in the first place) before moving on to something more advanced. Many people want to jump right into something very hard believing they can “handle it,” only to end up either regressing.

A person who lacks a sense of self-worth won’t be able to handle the highly positive and motivating scripting of a title like… say, EoG without having developed that inner wealth as easily as someone who has. If a script is telling you that you can achieve high societal status and wealth, and yet internally you look down upon yourself, the end result is going to most certainly be rough reconciliation as the outer circumstances and the inner circumstances simply does not match and the conscious mind cannot see how you could ever achieve what the script is saying you can do.

Thus, “reconciliation.” And reconciliation at it’s core is about imbalance. The outer circumstances and inner circumstances do not match and seems impossible to reconcile. This is what you may run into by going too far, too fast.

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#18

Thank you, hugely, for such a detailed and helpful reply.
May I ask what your background/experience is in relation to this topic?
I don’t mean that as a challenge or anything; you just come across as really having a deep understanding of these matters, so it made me curious :slight_smile:

Either way, your whole reply was pure gold. Sorry for exasperating you with my follow-up question about Phoenix vs DR:LD :joy:

I realised a while back that I have a habit and pattern.
I feel an urge to own things that I want, to have redundancy backups in case anything happens to the original (I mean physical stuff here, as well as digital). I want to Pokemon-style “catch 'em all”.
I think some of that comes from autism, some of it from insecurity and scarcity mindset.

And I further realised that I have a tendency to gather all the information on a skill or thing that I want to learn, plan, optimise and daydream about how I’m going to do it all, and sometimes after all that, then not take the required action.
I thought about this and realised it’s because doing those things, even more so if I spend money on it, feels like I’m taking positive action, but in reality, it’s just a hollow shell of the real thing.
I’m basically softening my inaction with comforters, to make myself feel like I’m changing when I’m just staying still. Gathering ever-more resources, rather than being resourceful by taking action with the ones I’ve already got.

Of course, realising this has helped me to start changing - and I really have made conscious progress with this in the last few months since I had this realisation. But, as you can see, the tendency has not been healed or overcome yet (and of course, not all of it is bad; there’s good things about being able to research, gather info, make strategic plans and purchases, as long as it’s all being done in a context that’s healthy, productive and focused on taking action).

So again, thank you for this answer, which has graciously made me aware of what I’m doing.
I shall follow your (and @SaintSovereign )'s advice and start Genesis, along with the rest of your action steps. Really appreciate it :slight_smile:

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#19

I’ve made a custom GPT helping to choose a right subliminal title for your goals. Be prepared for that this GPT is extremely non-biased and will recommend only those titles that you really need, not want. I taught him to think strategically and deeply. So you won’t get something like “if you want more money now, just go with RICH” or similar. It will try to learn as much as possible about your life, your skills, personality and more, to give you the best possible advice.

The algorithm is simple: tell it who you are, your context, your goals.

Tap a link.

P.S. Use it wisely, double check what it says.

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#20

Yes Realbad asses indeed, @Malkuth, @Akephalos , @James

to run Dragon for a long time is quite something, but the benefit must be even more profound,

the ROS AND ROM go well with them too, like having a magnifying glass.

big up to the person who came up with these beauties

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