It will still be nice on here. Just some people like talking like they know what everyone wants lol.
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So what? I’m not allowed to disagree with anyone??
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Actually I also don’t like this direction subclub is taking
but i guess it was inevitable
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I thought to myself: “Let’s make another one of those TL;DR posts and see who reads it. You don’t like it, use Quantum Limitless to learn Speed Reading.” 
First, this is for everybody because it is something I struggled with a bit myself. Mind’s Eye is a “Mental Supercharger”, which is an entirely different category of product compared to what we all know and love as “Supercharger”. Both product lines will continue to exist. Perhaps calling them something that doesn’t have the word “Supercharger” in it (like “Mental Accelerator”) might have been slightly less confusing. To me at least.
So Mind’s Eye is a multi-stage guided program that does have, as Smyth states, a linear progression. You start at the beginning and move on once you have mastered the exercise.
Now let’s tackle the multi-stage approach of the major programs…
SubClub likes to give people the freedom of choice. When running Khan/EoG/Alchemist, the listener is free to choose to jump straight to stage 4 and be happy there.
But…
The stages are numbered for a reason. There is most definitely a progression there even though people don’t seem to follow it very often. Stage 1 lays a foundation through healing and the removal of impediments. Stages 2 & 3 do programming, one stage for internal changes, one for external changes. Finally, stage 4 does its best to take all the refinements of the earlier stages and create something more akin to a maintenance track to be run for longer periods and smooth out all the edges.
Although I’m not privy to the research, I’m assuming that the guys concluded that cramming everything into a single stage would either create a 2-3 hour track or would make the experience (reconciliation etc) far more uncomfortable. The latter being an issue since SubClub likes the fact that its subs provide a smoother experience. It may even get people to stop listening to the subs and return them because they won’t see any results for the next 6 months (and we all know we live in an instant-gratification society).
So let’s translate that to Emperor Fitness. It takes a more global approach to fitness, meaning it needs to include health, diet and fitness. Smyth indicates the specifics are between the customer and their doctor. And that’s true. If everybody had the exact same specifics, addressing those might have fit in a single stage. And feel free to spend the money to create a custom single-stage sub to do just that. It’ll cost you more than a multi-stage one though.
But since people are all different, SubClub has to address issues that range from weight to age and disabilities (to the extent they are able). So they invest in getting professionals from different fields, including medical, dieticians and personal trainers. They pinpoint the big things that are common across the majority of people so that Fire can script new patterns to work on these. Heck, the amount of people they consult makes SubClub look like an open house.
Let’s break down the stages the way I see them…
This is a long one.
Stage one is healing. I’m thinking this would deal with beliefs and self-image a lot. People that believe they can’t get fit, people that are simply unable to imagine themselves ever being able to see their toes when standing on the scale. People that feel there’s never enough time to work out or even to go for a stroll. When it comes to getting fit, there’s always going to be a mountain of things that stop people, many of them dealing with beliefs. A lot. So we need a single stage that is directed to help you deal with those. And I see in fitness circles every day that if you try to get someone that needs a lot of work to start a full on workout schedule right at the start, they will never go with it. They need to be gently guided into it. So we can’t cram hours of fitness programming into this stage either, or people will stop listening as well, even though they don’t know why.
Let’s say the listener determines they are set on beliefs and go straight to stage 2. This is where the internal programming comes in. The bad beliefs are gone, time for the good ones to come in. This is where you stop being attracted by junk food and instead start eating healthier. Where you stop taking the elevator all the time and think it may be fun to take the stairs from now on. This is where your ideas about health and fitness change. Some people start thinking about what they will do about fitness or sports they may like, but they don’t necessarily do anything more just yet. They’ll walk more often, consider an apple to be a healthy snack. Pack a lunch so they aren’t tempted to go to the vending machine. Drink more water. Subtle, but a legion of changes.
We know a sub works better and faster if it is targeted, so this stage works better in overcoming years of bad behavior if it focuses only on that instead of piling on stage 1 or 3.
Then comes stage three. This is where we start to do more. Enlist at a gym, maybe get some equipment at home, maybe do yoga or a martial art. By now eating healthy should come pretty easy thanks to the previous stage, which supports us with energy here. If those bad habits were still here in this stage, people wouldn’t have the energy or motivation to work out. But thanks to the multi-stage approach, those issues should be resolved, making this stage more effective. This allows for easy positive reinforcements that start to exponentially grow your results.
Finally, stage 4. This is what helps you maintain your hard work. It will take some of the stage 2 programming and reinforces it, while also taking the action-driven approach of stage 3.
People are free to choose any stage they want, but this program works so much better when taking a layered approach. Much less resistance and failure.
Technically, one could create four different products, one per stage. But that would just confuse people so much more. Maybe not you. Maybe not the person that is convinced they don’t need stage one or two. But SubClub isn’t making this product just for you. It’s also making this product for the other 95% of their customers, however many that may be.
I could do the same kind of breakdown for Quantum. Artist might be slightly different because that would likely take a more branching approach, but I don’t have that information. Nobody but Saint/Fire does.
As for making Breakdown its own sub, you’re not the only one that thinks so. But you also haven’t seen the amount of questions concerning the different approaches to healing between Breakdown, Regeneration, Rebirth an what-not. So maybe putting breakdown out there as its own product would lead to even more questions.
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Only because you don’t understand the nuances of the situation and you’re only focusing on one thing – cost. We will not sacrifice choice, flexibility, power and improving our technology to force everything into a one stage title. Keep in mind that another subliminal producer has returned to making single stages, but places a price tag of $120 on it.
We maxed out our ability to cram things into one stage with Spartan New Dawn, and we were barely able to create ST4 of the four stagers. To make it work, @Fire had to remove any kind of healing from ST4. (EDIT: With the exception of Alchemist, since all four scripts had some core scripting, we were to make space to keep all the “purification” scripting from ST1: Pathfinder).
Not to mention, the four stage concept came directly out of customer feedback. We encountered a lot of customers who weren’t getting benefits from a single stage – again, because a broad spectrum subliminal can’t possibly address everyone’s issues – so, we decided to adjust how we approached it.
Guys, Breakdown can’t be its own sub. Each four stage title has its OWN version of Breakdown. What purpose would an all purpose “Breakdown” serve? That title works best when there’s a specified, targeted goal. What you’re looking for is an upgrade to Regeneration, which is in the works AND is a single stage.
Like we said, we’re not abandoning single stages. @Fire was just doing some research on new ones. But we’re not going to force a title into single stage format. At that point, we’d be ripping off our customers, selling an inferior product. Not happening. We’re also not going to limit the progression of our technology either.
Our products are still the most affordable in the industry when you compare price vs. value. So, if you “don’t like the direction SubClub is going,” there are other options available.
Spoiler alert: You’re going to pay more with less choice over your subliminal experience.
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Maybe a Mind’s Eye could be the official supercharger for Quantum Limitless, or Limitless v3 
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I think total breakdowns are different in each subliminal. I think every breakdown is trying to tackle the difficulties that the user is facing for the subliminal’s goal. So breakdown for khan might have some similarities to eog but will be different. Eog breakdown will breakdown financially beliefs and nothing related to sex beliefs for example
I might be wrong but this is what i understand from the description
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I remember @SaintSovereign said recently that each Breakdown is different for each multi-stage.
So I think you are absolutely right @rising
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The 4 stage structure seems perfectly sensible as they build on each other & culminate in ST4 combining everything. Not sure how you could break them up as they are dependent.
What I would love to see for Emperor Fitness are (maybe optional?) modules for different parts of the training process. Legacy is great to get started, maybe light scripts you could listen to during training (maybe one for muscle buildup that motivates to push harder, a different that motivates to keep going for cardio.) and maybe one for healing while you sleep/rest.
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I like the idea.
A lot of people listen to music when they workout. Some 30 minute tracks with upbeat music and with the subliminal messaging encouraging you to train harder, push further, keep proper form, build muscle, be motivated to workout etc etc, this could be cool!
Gym workout tracks to use while working out. I love it. It could even be a new market on its own, subs to use while working out with cool music on it.
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I like to ritualize my workout. Legacy is really great for the meditation beforehand.
I normally row an hour in the evening always listening to the same music. An endurance sub would be great.
It could also help to establish routines.
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I started using Legacy during my warm up routine and i can verify i feel more motivated and stronger both mentally and physically
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This is an interesting idea. Alchemical processes work best when the conscious mind is occupied / you’re in a state of trance, hence the drumming and dance circles used by shamans and other ritual practices. When you’re “in the zone,” you’re definitely in a state of trance.
The problem with this would be creating a “universal” track that wouldn’t distract someone while working out. For example, my musical tastes are extremely eclectic. I’ll listen to anything from Kanye West to Fleetwood Mac, to Sigur Ros, to whatever… but when I’m working out, I have a playlist has a lot of classical music. My girlfriend, on the hand, wants high intensity pop stuff. How would we address that issue? Open to suggestions.
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I think a solution is to make everything the same in the tracks except the music. One upbeat, and one somewhat classical.
Is this possible with current technology?
Anyways, you will need to think in that direction, because once you introduce AI, and people being able to choose what they want, then a great option would be for them to choose the music track on the their workout tracks.
If having a human voice in it complicated things, then the first version could simply be similar to a “masked” track. So the subliminal track is the same, but the music can be changed, some upbeat, some meditative, some classical, etc.
This is what I can think of, for now. I am sure other people will come up with great ideas.
Including @DarkPhilosopher, I know he’s a gym rat with an Adonis physique
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Why? I only have a dedicated corner with a pullup/dip/pushup machine, a WaterRower, a kettlebell rack, suspension trainer and a yoga mat, with a place for incense and a few drawers with knick-knacks and small devices.
I actually have a track that uses a sort of brainwave entrainment effect to get you into the zone and keep you there. One for cardio and one for resistance (and one for recovery/stretching). That thing really works, I can go for hours while completely losing track of time…
They even had classical versions at the time.
Part of it is BPM. We all know when running, driving or even lifting that certain rhythms are just right to make you fall in line (or press the accelerator pedal).
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Even though i get this is an exageration it is very hard to distinguise the difference between the Khan and Emperor. I dont even see a clear difference between Emperor and Khan. It seems both have the tedency to manifest wealth while they both improve your sexual experience whether it is talking to women or actually having sex with them. I get that Khan is a bit more sex heavy and Emperor business heavy but the difference isnt that clear
If it is an issue receiving 10 emails per day with this question then you should actually have faq answering this question clearly. It will save time from both consumer and yourself
For example with Spartan your description page is very broad. Also you never clearly answer what is the difference between normal version and X version. Your answer that each version is different isnt really an answer. Why is different? How is different? How you expect to impact my life the normal version comparing to x? Try and see isnt really an answer from the people who actually build the product
I strongly disagree to release each stage seperately. There is a reason you build it that way and i think as a business you will have big issue from people that they thought they can handle stage 4 only. Just my 2 cents even though i dislike the idea to run a subliminal 3 months in order to reach the final ‘‘goal’’ to run stage 4 there is a reason why you name something stage 1-2-3
Finally people should understand that you are a business. If people dont like the prices or where you are heading they can always pirate subliminals or they can move elsewhere. I personally got offered Khan for free. Then i looked your page and i was like fuck man it is only 100$ for a subliminal that covers my needs when i bought a 200$ subliminal which didnt. Then i saw your other prizes of 40$ and i was sure i will support them with my buck. You cant have everyone happy. I mean what is the purpose even answering to why you release a four stage ultimate artist? Because this is what you think is the best for you. Does anyone really thinks that you are going to release something you dont expect to sell?
At this moment your shop is full. Even if you stop producing subliminals you have enough to cover everything even partially. There isnt anything missing to have a better life and if people dont like the newer subs like four stage emperor then use spartan. Yes there will be people saying but this is better blah blah blah but guess what? If you use spartan and work your ass off you will see results. Spartan is an example of course
I personally stop using competitor’s subliminals for three reasons
- Forum was negative after a while. You read reports full of negativity and people constantly complaining
- He is selling a product as an expirement with free upgrades and then he wrote some update in the future might be paid if the models suggest it. GTFO
- I think it is a joke to release a subliminal and after a week to offer an upgrade. I remember he released uslm and after 3 days or so he upgraded it. I mean wtf dude. That shows irresponsibility and something isnt properly built if you can upgrade it in three days after a month plus of research and building
I love that you can allow us to stack the programs, i love your library(i am familiar only with two sites, the only negative is you have too many good things, for example i want to listen khan+sex mastery+game mastery+limitless+spartan+muay thai x because everything will help me with my life, of course i dont do that and i am running only khan+sex mastery+superchargers) i dont like that you suggest to freely expirement with stages and i dont like the support. I personally find irritating that i sent an email and you take 4 days+ to respond. Also you said you will get back to me after alchemist’s release which you didnt
Of course everything in life has positive and negative. I think the positive you offer are much greater than the negative. Actually the negative have nothing to do with the quality of your subliminals which is obvious they are working. I would never expect to see so many positive journals in any business area (not only subliminals)
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Something like the Battlestar drums is great for hard workout.
A Ultrasonic version would be great though. I suspect many would want to listen to their usual training music.
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The drums in legacy are the most amazing music track to prepare for a gym session imo. Ultrasonics shouldnt be used with headphones anyway
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True. Legacy is great.
I train at home, so normally without headphones & if necessary several audio sources.
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The reason why it’s hard to see a difference is because the two titles have overlapping goals. The obvious difference between the two is the fact that one is a four stager, which gives you much more latitude over your subliminal experience, and the other is a broad spectrum single stage. The sales pages, however, go into great detail about what’s in Emperor (even listing the modules) and what’s in Khan.
When people ask “what’s the difference,” what they’re really saying is, “which one should I get?” That’s a question I can’t answer – it depends on your unique needs. But, it’s very unfair to claim that the sales pages are confusing. Seriously, read them side by side – the descriptions are nothing alike and both go into a good amount of details about what to expect.
That being said, we’ll look into how we can clarify the differences more. A lot of the issues we’re encountering right now is spawning from the fact that we just need to improve our subliminal / mental alchemy onboarding. I’m working on that funnel now. We began with the “Subliminals That Work” eBook, but I’m also writing more support articles and implementing an automated drip email campaign that will explain a lot of the basic concepts that we just assumed everyone knew.
Spartan New Dawn X was an experimental subliminal. When using an experimental, there’s the element of the unknown. We can’t tell you what the differences are, because that would ruin the data by opening us up to placebo and the such. For those who want stable results without dealing with the unknowns, run the core program. But, to your point, since people couldn’t seem to grasp this, we stopped including experimentals with programs and began on-site and offsite private testing.
In the future, when we upgrade programs, we’ll probably remove the old versions. For example: We keep getting questions about which version of Emperor is better, v2 or v3. People, there’s a version number included. Clearly, v3 is the latest and greatest. We didn’t remove v2 because we didn’t believe in taking away something someone had purchased, but since this is becoming a big enough issue that people are sending us angry emails, we’ll consider removing it.
Here’s the thing, a lot of the choices we made, we did it because we wanted to give our users the choice to do things the way they want. When we developed our four stage technology, we spent weeks deliberating on how we could improve the subliminal experience. We realized that everyone is different, and our sensibilities aren’t yours. So, we came up with the idea of four distinct subliminals with a common goal, but could be run in whatever order the user wanted, depending on THEIR needs.
Now, suddenly we’re getting backlash because we wanted to give you the ability to shape your own experience? Part of the issue is the fact that many of the people here came from another subliminal producer, and they want us to follow that producer’s leads, just offer cheaper prices. That’s not going to happen – we have a distinct vision for how we want to leave our mark, and that vision revolves around consumer choice.
Yes, support was definitely our weak spot, but we’ve made some moves to resolve that. Up until a month or two ago, it was literally just @Fire and myself running everything. We recently hired a support agent who spends a significant amount of time each day answering chats and responding to emails. We now have a turnaround time of less than 24 hours during the week, two days on the weekend.
@DarkPhilosopher is also doing a phenomenal job as forum ambassador, providing support answers when he can and escalating it to us when he can’t. There’s also the Subliminals That Work eBook – which will be added to the support library for download soon – that answers a lot of basic support issues.
We’re also going to do some more expansion in January, so rest assured, you won’t have an issue with support in the future.
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