Generally in online shop, refund policy is not accepted for mp3 products only for physical products like CD’s.
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You have your fair share of drama here that I never would have imagined!
It would suck if PayPal goes, I used the pay in 4 option for my last sub because my local currency sucks but spreading out payments hurt less.
When do you roughly guess that you might end PayPal as a payment option? I need one more sub for a future stack and I might grab it in pay in 4 before you guys go with stripe only.
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It’s disappointing to see how some individuals can abuse the system with the intention to harm a community that has been built on the foundation of trust and transformation. Thank you for being transparent about the situation involving “Madara.” It’s clear that his actions were not only malicious but also a desperate attempt to manipulate and take advantage of the resources you’ve created for genuine seekers of personal development.
Additionally: To those who are relentless in their pursuit to undermine and destroy Subliminal Club, even as they hypocritically continue to benefit from the very tools they attempt to tarnish, I implore you to take a moment and truly reflect upon your intentions. It’s quite baffling to witness individuals who have, in fact, experienced the profound and positive impact of these meticulously crafted subliminals, now attempting to cast shadows of doubt and hurl baseless objections.
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The vast majority of us, who are engaged here. Have benefited greatly from sc and believe in the product.
A few bad apples isn’t representative of the community.
I can attest that for myself and the great people ive shared my journey with here.
Just wanted to share that context for those reading
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All qualified existing customers (you’ve made purchases in the past, didn’t violate refund policy) will still have access to PayPal. New accounts and customers won’t.
However, we just got off the phone with PayPal and their reasoning for siding with him is that Support agreed to the refund BEFORE we realized it was him. Our argument was that we had already blacklisted him and let him know that any new refund requests would be denied, so it’s irrelevant if the support agent agreed to the refund before looking at the history. A ban is a ban. They’re rewarding using clever tactics to get past bans from the vendor. However, they agreed that he is in violation of our refund policy and will (theoretically) side with us in the future.
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Ok thanks, that’s good to know I can still purchase that way.
PayPal disputes process sucks but it sounds like at least you’re able to deal with this guy in the future. Stopping new accounts from using PayPal may be the best option though to stop scammers. Maybe after 2 or 3 stripe purchases it could unlock PayPal payment option for that account, if that’s even possible to automate.
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I don’t do PayPal for any of my businesses. Easier that way. Stripe rocks.
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It’s good. The 3% surcharge is the killer though. I always encourage direct deposit payments.
Never used PayPal though, only for purchasing.
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PayPal is horrible for businesses. My opinion anyway. Sides with customers even when presented with absolute proof of wrongdoing and horsesassery.
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@SaintSovereign Why do you want the new wealth titles to perform as well as Wanted Black? Outside of the obvious reasons. What’s changed?
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He wants to “MAX” ZPv2 for wealth titles, which they’re aren’t any…
It’s all on the road toward ZPv3
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And it’ll make interesting QTKS of course
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I was thinking the same thing. I was also curious how the scripting has changed
I guess RICH will be the first one to be rewritten. 
since rewritten and update take time
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I think mogul will be the first wealth title to get a rewritten script but RICH is another good guess
They might also do something like emperor or house of Medici
I think it will depend on what people are running
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Writing in to agree on removing the refund policy.
A free Wealth and Seduction title will be enough (along with Love Bomb for Humanity) to satisfy those who want to “see before they believe”. Maybe an alpha title too for completeness.
If only one other free title should be made, then a Mogul Lite, Ascended Mogul Lite or Genesis Lite will do.
Personally, if it was me, I would just make Mogul free.
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My personal opinion on lite titles:
If I’m a user of another sub company, why would I try a lite title from another company when I still can use a full-fledged title from the company that I’m already with? “lite” implies that it will not give me the full experience, why choose that over what I already have?
The reason why I got into SC is because of LBFH, a full program that directly shows the full capability of SC’s subs. there’s no holding back with it.
I can agree with making mogul free to an extent, but it’s a sub that requires you to take action. the effect is less obvious for new users. maybe ascension / genesis would be better if you guys decide to make a title free.
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By this line of thinking, maybe we’re already good; because LBFH is still free now.
But having an additional light free program that covers another area might cast the net a little wider in terms of potentially interested users.
And, of course, if they decide that ‘lite’ is not enough and they still want more, there’s a very easy remedy for that.
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While I understand that Madara is abusing this policy, removing the refund policy may cause more harm than good. You would think a refund policy for digital products is a bad thing but you’d actually be (surprisingly) wrong. An explicit refund policy when used in selling products, even digital products leads to way more sales. The downside may be an increase in refunds but you would be surprised to know that this doesn’t actually happen all that much.
A refund policy works like insurance. Most people will never cash it out, hence why insurance companies are so profitable. Yet people still buy them for that feeling of reassurance that they’ll be okay. Same with a refund policy, they’ll feel comforted to know they can always back out if it doesn’t work even if 99% of them never do. And of those who abuse it, the owner can always blacklist them.
The problem here is more of avoiding a payment ban by evading the watchful eyes of the payment processor. That’s not really a problem on the side of the company, it’s the intermediary handling the payments.
Also we’re dealing with subliminals, considered an unusual technology by many. Not having a refund policy will raise eyebrows from those who are skeptical and on the fence, like I was a few years ago.
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@Beowulf - I do appreciate your nuanced and objective view on the matter but the thing is that even a single malicious individual is enough to take time away from Saint and Fire. Instead of having a relationship with productive members of the forum and putting time into developing new tech and titles, they have to go after these no-gooders which is also stressful.
As for those who are skeptical and those on the fence, the free titles will help with that. There will be no need to keep black lists and track users if there isn’t any refund policy and just as people take responsibility for subliminal use, they should also take responsibility for the purchase of said subliminals especially after they have tried out the free ones.
If they are still skeptical, they can research on the forum for those who tried the paid subliminals and decide on whether to take the leap themselves.
This cat and mouse game with people who cry placebo and who seek to blame SubClub for their problems is plain ridiculous as it is. Add to that people trying to get refunds for 35 USD and Saint having to waste more than hundreds of dollars of time to check and cross-check these instances is taking away more productive and restful use of his and Fire’s time.
Similar to the Customs not having refunds, the main store should also start doing so. It will eliminate a lot of future problems similar to the ones M caused. And my guess is that such people will only increase and try to use loop holes in PayPal and other payment services to take advantage of SC. Or at the bare minimum, waste a lot of time.
That’s my (non-refundable) 2 cents on the matter lol.
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