Saint Sovereign's Journal (HERO Origins + Khan Black ST 4)

Journals - Custom Subliminals
#4632

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

But let’s think about this for a second.

A bad actor comes in, wrecks the place, abuses the payment system, and constantly evades punishment. The proposed solution is for the company to:-

  1. Release free titles to the public
  2. Remove the conditional guarantee of a refund.

Releasing free titles cost money, time, and manpower for the company. So the company has to put in even more resources to handle the problem at a net loss for the company. Not only that but if you release the free titles improperly you could cause market cannibalization, leading to people that would otherwise buy one of your products to only use the free one. This further leads to a loss of revenue.

Now on top of that, the company then removes the refund policy on all of their products. I get that some consumers are smart and do their research, look into the forum, and test out the free products that are available. But we also have to think about the consumer psychology here. I come to the website. I’m offered a free title (or a few) and all the other titles are non-refundable. My brain as a consumer, who is unfamiliar with your product and lofty claims as a subliminal producer will either consciously or unconsciously think something is off. Why would I buy from your company with no refund policy if the other does? I feel more secure with my wallet there. Maybe you’re scamming me. Or you’re not confident in your product.

Then boom, your rival company got a new customer and continued loyalty because every product their customers purchase is refundable (safety). I am dealt with a double whammy of having to release free titles and revoking the refund policy that increases sales. Now my offer seems inferior to my competitors and I lose more time + effort to solidify myself in the marketplace.

I think we’re skirting around the solution here. Which is figuring out how to handle payments without someone abusing the system. That’s all we need to do. I think we’re jumping the gun here a little bit. Let’s say we solved the problem by just doing that. Then we don’t have to deal with all of these potential downsides in response to one bad actor, who would probably feel ecstatic that they caused the company to shoot themselves in the foot in response. We may potentially have future problems with the change but we’ll cross the bridge when we get there.

That’s my 2 cents on the matter :stuck_out_tongue:

9 Likes
#4633

Agreed. Now think everybody. Refund policy for something that costs 35$ whilst there’s so many testimonials that “guarantee” that these excellent products work? SC should focus more on positive reviews, feedback, testimonials as the “warranty”, instead of wasting their time and money on something that is obsolete, right now. It could work well in the past, where the brand was new but right now? With so much positive feedback?

Edit:
I’ve just checked a competitor’s website who charges around 10x more. No warranty whatsoever. And they use the same tech they did when I used their programs four years ago.

Edit:
I sent a ticket four days ago:

Would it be doable to add links to the sales pages that lead to the respective discussion topics on the forums, highlighting posts with the most relevant feedback on the subliminal results [on the given sub]?

That should work as the warranty really nicely, gentlemen. :blush:

7 Likes
#4634

This isn’t a loss since most consumers are encouraged by free trials to make purchases if they like the free ones.

Free titles actually inspire confidence in users since it implies that the company is confident enough to give away free titles and hence have no need to resort to a refund policy to get back the customer’s money.

And hence once again, try the free titles and get inspired enough to try the paid ones for more growth in various other domains.

This is a valid point but one should also consider that one needs to take action to get back one’s money and also deal with the risk of not getting a refund. Safety is hence more in free titles than refunds.

If that was the case, there wouldn’t be problems with PayPal. But there is.

But yes, if refunds are to be continued, this would be a good solution. Along with the point Saint made about keeping older users with good purchase history with Subliminal Club keeping their PayPal option.

Will admit you make some good points but I see more trouble with refunds compared to no-refunds.

4 Likes
#4635

That’s a fair point and touches on another topic not fully discussed: Time and effort. Free titles would cost, but would only do so once and would open a nice way to advertise. The 30 day policy is a bit fraud prone and will always be a bit of a hassle. Customers who enjoyed the free titles and got results will IMO not go for the competition.

Absolutely. But e. g. killing Paypal for new customers will probably reduce revenue too.

2 Likes
#4636

You’re definitely right.

Which is why I mentioned improperly released titles. The company basically has to weigh whether releasing a new, free title is worth it to get more paying customers compared to the downsides of the title bringing in a lot of revenue to the company if it wasn’t free. This to me feels like a tricky act and as a solution to the problem at hand carries some unnecessary risk.

I’m quite open to free titles as a marketing tool, just that it seems like we’re using the wrong tool here.

This is hard to agree. A refund policy is different from a testimonial, which is different from a lead magnet. You can have amazing testimonials and a great lead magnet (free titles) but you’re neutering yourself of one of the components of a great offer, the refund policy. One doesn’t exactly replace the other. So it doesn’t make sense to me to cut off something that will bring in more sales IMO.

True, though it’s better than not having a refund policy at all. Just the existence of it is enough to improve sales.

Even if fraud exists, I still think it pales in comparison to the revenue brought in by the refund policy. I’m not sure how the company is going to solve it but that’s what I believe.

Good point. Still needs to be carefully considered though.

I think handling the payment processing issue is all we should care about for now. If it gets settled, then all of the proposed solutions are entirely unnecessary and potentially counterproductive.

3 Likes
#4637

Bruh, what programs are you running these days? And what are you working on?

Whatever it is, I’m hearing its beneficial effects on you.

3 Likes
#4638

If it was my business, I would setup a proper process to deal with the refunds. One that only escalates it to me when the customer service agent doesn’t know how to deal with it.

In my business we have 4 people dealing with customers. None of them are me.

There’s a difference in customers. The ones that are willing to pull out their credit cards are a lot more profitable kind compared to the ones that don’t.

You still need to deal with the freebie seekers. Being a distraction on the forum has nothing to do with payments. It depends on their personality.

Removing the Risk Reversal component (refunds) might have a huge effect on conversion rate. Depending on the scale of the business we might be talking about millions of dollars.

We are making assumptions without the correct data.

Edit: wrote this on phone while eating. Had to take some shortcuts.

13 Likes
#4639

I really like @Beowulf’s argument, so I’m renouncing my initial stance. From a business side of things, it’s much better to offer a refund policy than to not.

2 Likes
#4640

I look forward to more manifestations on RICH, it was good in of itself

4 Likes
#4641

I think of RICH first because it doesn’t require other conditions from users.

Also, it seems many users listen to RICH than other wealth titles, my guess only. So Saint may rewritten RICH first.

3 Likes
#4642

its also lighter than some of the other hard hitting ones.

#4643

Emperor would be nice :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#4644

id imagine khan getting a boost too then, since it has wealth components

3 Likes
#4645

As transparency is one of our guiding principles, we’re letting everyone know that @Invictus has not been online for about a month now.

A group of forum members – who have a group chat with him and interact with him multiple times a day – reached out to us on August 1st, concerned about his absence, as he had been offline for a few days. I personally last spoke to him on July 29th, when he was inquiring about his new custom. The custom was delivered on July 31st, but has not been downloaded.

I have emailed him from an official company address to ALL the email addresses he used here to no response. I have supplied trusted individuals here with as much information as I could to see if they could get in contact with him, including – and this is something I’d never do except in the most dire of situations – the phone number he supplied us. No response. They have reached out to his family. They’ve reached out to friends. They’ve reached out to co-workers. No response. It’s almost like there’s a blackout on the situation.

One “friend” of his responded to a forum member’s inquiry (and that person can reveal themselves if they so desire) that he is “fine,” but from what I understand, that forum member doesn’t trust that answer.

As a company, there’s only so much we can reveal about any situation, not because the law prevents us from revealing it, but we feel that doing so is immoral. As you’ve seen in the past, we would rather deal with people attacking us before revealing people’s private information. Even the individuals attempting to dox and attack us, we still censor any screenshots or content we produce to fight their claims.

As such, we are not going to publicly reveal the private things that were told to us about his life. Those of you who have spoken to us about this and he has told you these details, we ask that you maintain his privacy and discuss things with us and those who already know until we all get more information. When he returns, I’m not sure he’d be happy with everyone publicly exposing things that were told in privacy.

What we CAN reveal is the multiple individuals on this forum who spoke to him everyday, multiple times a day, have indicated that there was no sign of any recon, sadness, depression – that he was extremely happy, doing well and eager to run his new custom. That was our first concern – if his subliminal use was having an effect on him that wasn’t being expressed to us. That does not look to be the case, and those who know him closely can speak up if they so desire.

@Invictus would’ve mentioned to me anyway, as he and I have a trusting relationship when it comes to results. He was one of the ones that tested the original Revelation of Spirit and his feedback directly led to me pulling it and starting over from scratch. That’s how much I personally trust his results. It’s rare for him to say that a title is “too much,” given his flow factor, so when he intimated that the original RoS was, I heard it.

So, to the bad actors who are looking for any situation to try and push their agendas (and you know who you are) – this is not the time. If Invictus didn’t express any issues with his subliminal use to the forum, @Fire and myself or the people he spoke to every single day, you do not get to override his own words and weaponize him. This moment is NOT about you, and it won’t be allowed here, regardless of your thoughts about that decision. When he returns, he himself will let people know what happened.

Since most of the people here are spiritual in some way and believe that you can indeed send positive energy and vibes to someone, we’re asking those individuals to do so. Please send your positive thoughts, prayers, intentions, whatever toward him.

If this post seems a bit distant – it’s just a coping mechanism. We still have to run this company, keep things moving. Because the truth of the matter, and I’m just leaving it at this: I really miss this dude. I think I took for granted how much I enjoyed his constant PMs, full of excitement, and encouragement. It’s been a bit bleaker this month without it.

53 Likes
#4646

Frankly I felt a bit misty eyed reading it. Didn’t feel distant at all.

Hope Invictus comes back and tell us “nothing will keep him down”. For I truly believe that with regard to him.

At the same time, part of me expects the worst knowing how cruel others can be in terms of wanting to hurt people for no cause. Or for profit.

Still, we will wait for him and hope for the best. Sending good vibes to him. Will set aside time to do that properly.

21 Likes
#4647

Blessings and good wishes for this forum and this company. It’s been a rough month by the looks of things. It’s time for the pendulum to swing back to Good.

13 Likes
#4648

What happened to Invictus?
I know he didn’t get along with Alphamale
I never understood why Saint pampered him despite being a horrible example to everyone else.

7 Likes
#4649

I also quit the forum and never came back because of Alphamale insults and another forum member but I do understand Saint point of view for keeping him for the period he was here.

He wanted to help him despite his difficulties and issues because everyone deserve that until it was too much (correct me if I’m wrong Saint).

5 Likes
#4650

We don’t know yet. We hope his absence is temporary and he will be back before we know it.

Basically this:

AM did need our help and Saint was right to do so. But he didn’t make use of it but instead took the opportunity to cause even more issues on the forum. In the end it wasn’t worth it and he was removed.

That’s the TLDR version of the events.

6 Likes
#4651

Maybe @Invictus is on holydays ?

2 Likes