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The more i think about this the more frustrated and sad i become.
How can you make such an announcement and only give people 3 days notice?
And why was this thread not pinned on the homepage so no one misses such a drastic change.
Im very active on here and was not aware of this until now.
I cannot emphasize enough how bad of a decision this is.
I probably test products more seriously then anyone here and i have nowhere near enough data to conclude that ZP is bettter technology then QV2; not even close.
I really cannot believe this is happening.
What an absolutely terrible way to start the week.
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I’d like to say that while they just posted this, they have mentioned this before. It also makes perfect sense because of the fact there are so many files to download for people and it is probably confusing to new people.
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Maybe this will make you feel better:
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That’s your subjective truth, my friend.
A limiting belief that you have solidified by not being as open with the subs as one should be.
Your “serious testing” is also flawed in many ways than just one, but your most recent “test”, where you jumped into khan stage 3, without building a foundation with the first 2 stages, shows how your “tests” aren’t really thorough.
Furthermore, you also seem to have some kind of an agenda against many of the users here, whenever you see someone mention their results with a particular sub you’re interested in, but then they move on to another sub, you start doubting their results and start bashing them with statements like “I can’t believe why you’d stop a sub that was already giving you good results”, almost as if you’re trying to paint them as liars, when in reality, you just have a limiting belief regarding change.
Your “tests” only provide a framework for yourself, and if you want to continue using the previous tech, then by all means do so, and download your “20+ products” and store them wherever you wish to do so, however, know that one person’s subjective truth is not enough of a reason for Saint and Fire to stop improving their tech, and making new products with their new and improved tech.
And now you probably have another concern “would I not get new products in Qv2 and Ultima?”, and the simple answer to that would be “no”, because while we all know Saint and Fire are very hardworking individuals, making more scripts for one product takes more time than you realize (you don’t know about the time it takes for Q to pump out the audios, do you?), and since you’re so “scientific”, then shouldn’t you agree that going backwards is not the “right” move to make?
If I came out with a new tech device, and then made an improvement to it by improving the core of the product, and saw a handful of people complaining about the new ones not meeting their expectations like the old product, then is that enough of a reason for me to stop making improvements to the product that everyone else loves?
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There are two types of people:
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Years ago when I launched my first “big” company, we had some serious delays during pre-launch… to the extent that what we launched with was just a scaled-up production capacity of the prototype, which IMHO was not ready for commercialization.
It took about a year until v2.0 was ready for launch, and when it did, that became the new product. It was a simplified formulation, it had a shelf life of about double that of the previous version, and was superior in every single way.
Most people loved it… but a few individuals hated it with a fiery passion. They railed against us in support tickets, on social media, etc.
Why did you change it? Why can’t you keep making the old version? etc…
The new one was SO much better than the old one, that I couldn’t wait to get rid of the old one… and since the production facility had been converted over to make the new formula, there wasn’t a way to make the old one anymore, even if I wanted to.
I get it, not everyone likes change… but, and this notion may be hard for some people to accept… Just because someone believes something, does not make it a fact.
I’ve downloaded all of my Qv2 files and customs, backed up on Google Drive… but I haven’t touched any of them since ZP was released, and I doubt I will… I still like my customs, but they’ll be re-created as ZPs when I’m ready.
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I can’t wait to see the updated objectives for all products. If keeping Qv2 prevents that to happen asap I vote to remove them now. Update the objectives first, decide after if Qv2 is needed to be kept in a past version library.
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No, customs will remain online for now, but please download them all and back them up.
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Every time we release a new technology level, there is a tiny subset of people who will claim that the previous technology was the best. It’s the nature of business.
Here at Subliminal Club, we embrace progress and advancement. We’re not going backwards - we do extensive studies to make sure each new technology is a true step forward. We’re not afraid of looking through our current technology and completely redesigning it if the new technology is better - like we did with ZP.
So yes, Qv2 is in EOL and will be removed. It is causing unnecessary strain to new users, which @MadaraUchiha you were a strong proponent for. The first thing you said when you arrived to our forums was, and I quote:
“as soon as i saw the download page my mood instantly dropped and i became very annoyed. the first problem is why are there 7 different audio files on the download page.”
We analyzed this feedback and decided that indeed, new users would benefit from a simpler downloading experience.
I appreciate that you share your feedback - but consider it from a wider perspective, including from the perspective of others and from your own experiences back from when you started.
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How do you know you test more seriously than anyone? There are people who use these products extensively and you are not on this forum.
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Humility is knowing that you don’t know these products more than the makers do and they have way more data than you can imagine.
So maybe relax and trust the process.
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this has NOTHING to do with business.
its science and psychology.
there is absolutely no way for you to know what sort of stimulus someone will respond to,
any suggestion that you know for a fact that everyone will get better results with ZP then Qv2 is completely laughable from a scientific standpoint.
that is simply not how science and psychology works.
the psychological profile of each person are far too different for anyone to be able to make such a claim.
this is completely wrong.
that is NOT how science works.
this is just a 100% inaccurate way of looking at the situation.
I will use a clear example to explain the flaw in your reasoning.
i have ADHD.
when you are diagnosed with ADHD you then begin experimenting with your doctor to find which medication you will respond best to.
there are all types of adhd medication.
there are short lasting medication like dexedrine tablets that last 2-3 hours and you would take them 3-4 times per day.
there is medium lasting medication like vyavanse that last 6-10 hours depending on the dose that you take once or twice per day.
and that is just 2 examples, there is also adderall, concerta and a lot more.
your claim that you somehow know that ZP format will work best for everyone would be like a doctor claiming that everyone with adhd should just use vyavanse.
its a laughable and completely unscientific claim.
there is no way for you to know that.
people react differently to different stimulus and the only way to know is by testing.
i repeat so there is no confusion.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY FOR YOU TO KNOW THAT EVERYONE WILL RESPOND BETTER TO ZP FORMAT THEN QV2 AND ANY SUCH SUGGESTION IS ABSURD AND COMPLETELLY UNSCIENTIFIC.
huh?
then simply mark the ZP format as {recommended}
and then put QV2 as (previous version)
and put the release date next to each version.
also, for descriptions on the sales page only include info for ZP format since that is the recommended format.
that is all you need and all confusion for new customers is gone.
i have,
no one on this forum takes this more seriously then me.
this is terrible terrible news that jeopardizes my plans.
I have been doing serious self improvement since age 12-13.
before subclub i spent massive amounts of money and time on every possible self improvement strategy you can imagine.
i have tried everything from experimental chemicals to paying a college professor to teach me this shaking therapy called TRE where you shake your body and it supposedly helps you become a lot more relaxed.
I have tried almost anything you can think off that is legal.
i was doing meditation several years before it went mainstream.
but in recent months i had become such a fan of subclub that i have literally stopped everything else except your products.
anything i want to get done now my first question is “which subclub product can i test to achieve this?”
this decision by you has completely destroyed my faith in you guys as it shows such flawed understanding of science and psychology that I’m still shocked this is real and not some late april fools joke.
my life that had become so simple with subclub products literally being the only thing i use for self improvement but now i need to reconsider if that was a wise decision to go all in on you guys the way i had done up to now.
this is a sad day for me.
maybe im not doing a good job of articulating why this is such a terrible decision but to me its so obviously a bad decision that it has completely shifted the way i looked at you guys less then 24 hours ago.
i do not think its wise put my faith on people who would make such a bad decision. to me if you can make such a flawed decision then what else are you capable off? what other bad surprises could await me in the future?
especially given that you gave us 3 days notice and did NOT even email current customers so they have a chance to download these products before you remove them.
again, what an absolute terrible start to the week.
3 Likes
my stance has NOTHING to do with liking or not liking change.
i care about achieving my goals and nothing else.
and there is no way for anyone to know for sure that ZP will deliver better results then QV2 format.
that is my only point.
i want to still have the ability to test QV2 format because only testing can determine what works best for someone’s psychological profile.
I cannot believe this is even a debate.
any claim that somehow anyone could know for a fact that everyone will universally get better results with ZP format then QV2 is laughable and completely unscientific.
1 Like
@MadaraUchiha - I want to say a lot of things to you but it is quite clear that you won’t accept any reasonable advice and will do your usual “this is wrong. This is unscientific. This is laughable” bit.
The only thing I will say is that since SubClub has clearly “disappointed” you, then please go. No one will miss you here with your “holier than thou” attitude.
Even with SaintSovereign thinking of making provisions to archive older versions for us, you have absolutely ignored this statement and kept on repeating your tired arguments on how everyone including those running this business is wrong.
Seriously, am a patient fellow but you are coming to this house of SaintSovereign and Fire and disrespecting these 2 great guys who have done so much for us and so I won’t sit back and allow it to happen.
Just leave. Am tired of your attitude and am sure the forum agrees. What you really need more than seduction and money subs is a socialising title that teaches you how to talk to people. Cause clearly you don’t know how to do it.
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There’s always the ignore function which I only had to use 3 times on this forum, which is actually quite a good sign!
Great community overall!
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He really needs to go. Honestly. The ignore function doesn’t help.
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I agree with you bro. And this is the only guy I put on ignore. But I thought I would give him a chance again since SaintSovereign told us to give him a chance.
Anyway, I will not continue with this discussion. Let him feel whatever he wants.
Yes.
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This isn’t a debate. It’s happening. In fact, it already did.
@MadaraUchiha and anyone else who wants to keep pushing this point:
You do NOT have access to the data that we have. That is a fact. It is an indisputable fact.
You do not know what datasets we’re using to make this decision, nor do you have any insight into how we even collected and analyzed the data. That is a fact. It is an indisputable fact.
You do not know what parameters and guidelines we developed to make the decision in the first place. That is a fact. It is an indisputable fact.
Because of this, you cannot make the claim that our decision isn’t “scientific,” since you have little to no knowledge of our internal processes. That is a fact. It is an indisputable fact.
So, you have two choices. You can accept that this happening and use the Zero Point subliminals, or you can patronize someone else. Let me make myself clear, if you decide in your frustration to leave and you do what you did last time with the reviews and chargebacks and the such, you will become persona non grata, meaning you never be allowed to openly purchase any products from us or post on this forum ever again.
The age of Qv2 is over. We are not going backward.
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the scientific process has nothing to one with a single entities “internal processes”; the fact that you think that one companies internals’ process has anything to do with the scientific process confirms my point that you have a fundamentally flawed understanding of what the scientific process even is.
my point has been and remains the same since i saw this thread.
THERE IS ABSOLUTELLY NO WAY FOR YOU OR ANYONE ELSE TO KNOW THAT ZP FORMAT WILL UNIVERSALLY WORK BETTER THEN QV2 FOR EVERYONE AND ANY SUCH CLAIM IS 100% ABSURD AND UNSCIENTIFIC…
this is my only point and no one who has posted on this thread has directly addressed this.
there is simply no way for anyone to know what stimulus someone will respond best to,
huh?
this almost sounds like you are implying that i have a problem with ZP.
i have been using ZP exclusively since they came out.
I have bought 10-15 products in the time since ZP came out.
i have no problem with ZP.
i do not care about the format, i care about the results.
and by removing QV2 you are hurting people who might have responded better to QV2.
am i someone who will respond better to ZP then QV2?
i have no idea at this point.
i just test and track results.
and now all future products i buy you have removed my ability to test that format.
understood i will drop the subject.
but i will conclude by stating again for the record that this is a terrible decision that makes no sense if the goal is to maximize results/benefits to customers.
and its completely unacceptable that you gave us 3 days notice and did NOT even email customers about this. i would have just bought all the products i dont yet have had i known this was happening.
and also the fact that you think QV2 is somehow going “backwards” is again more evidence of a lack of scientific education.
calling QV2 “backwards” would be like a doctor telling an ADHD patient to only use vyavanse because its the most recent adhd medication to come out and using the 50 year old dexedrine is “backwards”
that is not how it works.
its about which stimulus each individual responds best to given their psychological and biological make up.
anyways, i will drop the subject.
thank god i archived all my products last week and the 25 or so products i already bought hopefully get me far.
its just sad that products like GLM and Sage Immortal that i had planned to test at some point are only now in one format.
and again, to be extra clear, this has nothing to do with liking or not liking ZP.
its about removing options for no reason.
someone who might have responded better to QV2 now does not have that option.
and the decision is even more bizarre when sublub has claimed all along that they like a culture of experimentation and choice.
anyways, unless someone asks me a direct question on this matter i will no longer comment on this subject.
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Browsing my downloading section is so much nicer now that the other versions are gone, it makes a huge difference, especially for those who have multiple multi-stagers.
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