Of Magick and Chakras Thread


(Ahh but is it silver, golden or iridescent?)

After reading some of the discussion in the Subconscious mind thread I thought it wouid be worth creating this topic, separately from the any occultists thread, to help keep other threads on track and provide a section to discuss these two related topics.

A bit of background from me, I’ve been involved in the study of different magickal or spiritual systems since perhaps the age of 10 or 11 (I’m 42 now), with a change in my methodology of study which was first encountered in 1999 even before I became involved with largely West Coast US magickal people and organizations in the southern hemisphere briefly to continue my development. I’ve been involved in both OTO and AMORC in the past (currently a dues paying member of neither, although that may change later this year) and a curious student of Thelema since at least 1999, becoming more serious around 2003. I was also received an initiation from a local renegade Thelemic Sufi in Brisbane in 03 or 04. I mention some of my background only to make it clear I’ve been studying and practicing for some time now, and have seen the good the bad and the downright ugly of “magical” philosophy.

I’ll be carefully putting together some posts for this thread over the next several days to explain what intersections I see of magick and chakra systems and other such things with the realm of subliminals, I’d like this to be a place where other people can do the same and share their experience with that as well as discussing the topics such as the Tree or numeric correspondences in more detail without derailing other threads.

I’ll be starting later today with the importance of a critical examination of the history of these topics and their purpose in discerning the true from the false information (or more directly, the information that limits or confuses ones understanding versus that which allows an expanded understanding of purpose and how to apply multiple different systems by following general principles). In the meantime, I hope people don’t mind be splitting off a topic for this very interesting subject area which has been one of my primary areas of intense interest for many years due to its great utility!


1. The Problem

One of the great mysteries which has interested aware and thinking humans across millennia can be defined in two parts. First and foremost is the observation that we are conscious – that is, that we experience things through a variety of senses and experience a localised or sometimes non-localised sense of self, separate to a greater or lesser extent from our environment and other humans.

Scientists, philosophers and people of religion have wondered about the origin of this sensed experience and the nature of the thing (if it can be called a thing, indeed) experiencing it. Modern science calls this question the “Hard Problem of Consciousness”, a term first originated by the philosopher David Chalmers.

The second half of the mystery relates to the first, which goes on to question how something such as consciousness, which in its felt experience seems to be an insubstantial or incorporeal thing, can have an effect on the outer world. At its most basic level this means how does consciousness influence the mechanisms of our body to allow us to do things like moving our hands or legs, or vividly experiencing a past experience or imagined experience such that it has an effect on our physical state.

Beyond that, the second half of the question is given a wider perspective by the research of organizations such as the P.E.A.R. project which purports to show the influence of human consciousness during globally important events on the coherence of numbers from various random number generators located around the world, as well as the outcomes of experiments such as various governmental or institutional forays into the subjects of remote viewing and influencing.

Anomalies exist that are unable to be satisfactorily explained by our modern understanding of the world as a mechanical system, and furthermore quantum physics has shown us the futility of seeing the world as consisting of disconnected parts through the observer problem (observing a particle altering its nature), an observation which demolishes the idea of a machine with moving parts or a Deus ex Machina, by demonstrating the principle of interconnectedness through the idea of quantum worlds or quantum coherence.

Science in itself was originated as a reaction to the problem of faith based belief systems which required faith in the existence of something the observer could not prove (or at any rate, could not experience without great difficulty or the intervention of Divine Providence). All of this is well known and documented and to some extent taught in schools.

Another problem with religious systems, intended for the use of the wider community they originated in as a way of life, is that their definitions of terms are or have become exceedingly vague. The very question of what a soul is, how it is born or generated, why it needs “saving”, and what happens after it leaves the body it is attached to, are only partially addressed by the body of religious teachings.

These teachings often fail to address deeper questions such as why separate souls appear to exist in an open ended universe where everything else is interconnected and flows together. They also fail to answer the very practical questions which science addressed by use of the scientific method to deduce theories and laws by which the physical realm could be gradually mastered.

Side by side with scientific and religious thinking as well as the thinking of the philosophers, all of which are different ways of exploring the human condition, there has existed from an early date an esoteric current of thought (hidden or inner) in contradistinction to the exoteric ideas taught by religion and science, which finds its origin in the earliest periods of society.

Examples would include the Shamans of Siberia, the Bon tradition in Tibet/Asia, the tradition of mongwis (priests/chiefs) skilled in manipulating a particular aspect of reality, or clans preserving similar special knowledge, more specifically traditions of what we would call indigenous systems of magic. These systems tend to take a different approach to reality and its manipulation to that of religious or scientific traditions.

Common themes include the perception of the Universe as filled with Intelligence, what in the Hermetic tradition is known for example as Mind with a capital M (known as Nous in the hermetic texts or logos meaning Light-Word). Another common theme is that humans can communicate with this intelligence, although not using our everyday English speech but an altogether more visceral form of communication.

Whether a particular tradition speaks of spirits, angels, demons, kachinas, star beings or other forms of consciousness, the approach is a collaborative one which says that we are not the only beings imbued with Mind or Intelligence, and that we can ask the outer world through differing forms of communication to deliver something we desire and if it is in alignment with its own desires, obtain the outcome requested.

Often these systems make use of ceremonies or elaborate rituals to make it clear to the Outer Intelligence what our intent is. Marriage was originally such a ritual, initiations are another similar type of ceremony designed to convey a different type of intention. In the 19th and 20th century in the West particularly, systems such as Thelemic or the Golden Dawn magical system, Wicca, or even Chaos Magick, as well as the earlier sexual magical traditions of those such as Paschal Beverley Randolph and the Hermetic Brotherhood of Luxor, are examples of a modern outgrowth of something which has its original roots in what I will abbreviate as ISM (for indigenous systems of magic).

What it is important to recognize when dealing with systems such as these, are that all of them originally had their basis in a way of experiencing consciousness which is different to our ordinary mode of consciousness most of us tend to use while approaching life in society.

Due to a multitude of factors including the gradual decline of the earth’s geomagnetic field, people began to experience approximately 2000-3000 years ago a change in the nature of their awareness which was characterized by a feeling of disconnection from the outer world. An in depth examination of this can be found in a series of lectures by Rudolf Steiner on The Origins of Natural Science. This sense of a disconnect between the self and a living and vibrant outer world was crucial in the development of modern science, and one might almost say that modern science would not have developed without this decline which allowed a more objective, clinical examination of natural processes.

However, despite this gradual disconnect of the individual from the outer world, and the development of the idea of the Ego, the innate intelligence recognized by ISM remains a reality which can be experienced, particularly in altered states of consciousness. Without this understanding, basing our understanding solely on the realm of human intelligence, our ability to create change in the outer realm is limited, as it prevents us from seeing things as they are and reduces living, intelligent systems to machines, ignoring their ability to sense, feel and respond to other forms of intelligence.

In Western Alchemy and medieval tradition, this intelligence innate in all forms of language was given various names: Green Language, Language of the Birds (or Horses), or the Gay Speech/Gay Science (from the old meaning of the word and referring to its mercurial, dynamic and living nature, ie living language). It is the science or language which deals with living things, as opposed to that which deals with dead or non dynamic things. [1]

In the current day, while some retain this knowledge, often this origin for magic in understanding of the living, intelligent nature of reality sensed by indigenous populations not disconnected from their environment is forgotten by us living in a society where the internet, despite providing us with one type of sense of connection, disconnects us more from that direct experience of connection with the life power.

In a future post I will touch on how this missing element connects with subliminals and manifestation technologies, but I’ll end this post here to avoid an overwhelm of information.

[1] As a footnote I will add that this Green Language dealing with living, intelligent things as opposed to the static is why it is deeply entwined with prophecy and why Nostradamus and others used it in the setting down of their volumes of prophecy (as the future outcomes are dynamic and in flux even as they obey specific laws or guidelines of nature arising from interconnectedness).


It is worth considering the relevance of this living nature many humans are increasingly disconnected from in our current time to our current world situation, which includes a pandemic the reaction to which seems deeply exaggerated or overly intense. The widespread fear of viruses, an antipathy towards an entity which has no life force of its own, arises out our own disconnection from our living nature.

Consider Wim Hof’s experiment where, exposed to a pathogen, he was able to control his immune response and core body temperature. Consider also how yogis have demonstrated similar control of their own biology, as well as the ability to resist the effects of poisons, through techniques of meditation particularly those reliant on breath control (or more correctly, breath awareness or intelligent breath).

The fear of viruses and other toxins, and the fear of bodily death, stems from disconnection from that life power. This is the true reason why Wilhelm Reich was demonized and his books burned for promulgating a doctrine which showed that human sexuality was rooted in an intelligent life power that was universal and whose stagnancy could cause both mental and physical illness.

That conscious disconnect which is the reason for the existence of the subconscious, is also the cause of many modern problems in human relationships, particularly those which center around sexuality and human contact. Whether people take a monogamous or polyamorous approach, missing this basic aspect of human existence – failing to recognize and respond to its intelligence in ourselves and others, is the primary cause of a wide range of ills.

Techniques of moving from beta and gamma towards slower frequencies, in order to obtain insight or solutions to problems, is one example of making friends with this greater power of the living intelligence of the subconscious mind in order to solve problems the limited awareness cannot. How do we achieve these lower frequency states? By relaxing our body and mind and allowing them to flow together into a more unified state of mind-body intelligence where communication with our greater being is made easier. By becoming aware of aspects of our being we often ignore, such as our breathing.

This meditation which we make in writing, upon the nature of the greater creative intelligence which exists within us all, leads us naturally into consideration of many other topics, including in the future the chakras – a word which does not describe a static “thing” such as a gland or nerve plexus, but rather describes a life process or a flow of energy which exists within the greater whole of the “subtle body” (or bodies), one governed by an innate intelligence.

By obtaining a deeper connection with this intelligence which is located in other places besides our brain, specifically the parts which hear and react to subliminals, we can fast track the reconciliation process as well as recognize the intuitive nudges given by our greater intelligence more often in our waking reality.

It is this reunification which is spoken about in stage 1 of Quantum limitless, the alignment of the conscious and subconscious minds which leads to accelerated learning and increased retention and recall of information. It is this reunification which will lead to us becoming superhuman, or more accurately, more human.

This is the hidden connection which links magic and subliminal technology.


A.Crowley’s work?


Does magickal come within the realms of black magickal ? I guessing its the dark path. A former member of our department was telling me how priests in his country were using black magickal to manipulate the president.


Wow, actual puerile superstition on a subliminal forum.

I actually expected better from a place claiming to “advance human potential”. Whatever happened to “the method of science, the aim of religion”?


Well I like to keep an open mind anything is within the realms of possibility. Obviously jumping off a building and being able to fly is not one of them :slight_smile:


Just so we’re clear, I cringe whenever anyone conflates Thelema or some writing of Aleister Crowley with “black magic”. It’s usually indicative of someone who hasn’t taken the time to study the topic or who has taken as their guide some conservative Christian armchair researcher who thinks they know everything about Crowley because he was a bit of a practical jokester and called himself the Great Beast 666.

(Disclaimer: I’m not assuming you are the latter, just saying in general what I feel when someone drops the old “black magic” playing card and I yawn and consider putting some Santana on the record player)

He may have been an egotist and a misogynist at times, but actually warned against black magic in his writings, and was on his better days at least a lover of the Divine Intelligence.

And although I happen to appreciate the philosophy of Thelema, this is a thread about magick and its roots and the application of that to subliminals and the subconscious, not about any one specific philosophy or system of magick. Certainly not black magick (I’d prefer Octarine to be honest)


In your years of magick have you ever had meetings with angels ?. I heard some magick users had profound experiences where angels came to visit them.


The archangels are used in the Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram, and while they each have their on unique signature energy, Michael is the one I’ve always felt the most connection with and felt the presence of at times when I called upon them for protection during the rare occasions I have felt a magical attack.

Other than that, I have had some minor dealings with those I believe to have been the Chasmalim, the angels of the sephira of Chesed, who are one of the more joyful groups of angels you could hope to come into contact with, and I can vouch for what William Gray said about them in his writings about them, particularly the statement that “Laughter on a Chesedic level is the Call that connects humanity and Divinity with one another.”


Magick vs Magic.

What’s the difference?


To be honest, in most cases, unless you are Aleister Crowley, just spelling preference and differentiating between stage magic and other uses of the word. The addition of the K was first used by him in his writings to change the word from 5 letters to 6, and the K is the 11th letter of the alphabet which connects with Nuit, his personification of the goddess of infinite Space.

Eleven is also an important number in Rosicrucian and Greek symbolism, being the union of the 5 of the pentagram and the 6 of the hexagram, and is thus a symbol of the mystic marriage between man and the Divine Intelligence which is that core principle we were discussing above in post #2.

Myself, I just use it to make it clear what is being discussed. :smile:


In order to manage my time effectively, to determine whether it is time-cost effective to continue the posts I began earlier on the thread, I’m gauging interest based off likes or replies to the posts, and what kind of response I’ve had so far:

  • Positives: 6 likes on the first post
  • Negatives: Zero likes or replies to the meat of my following two posts, with the focus of the replies so far being on “oh my god he said Crowley, warning black magic alert!” (hopefully with some degree of tongue in cheek there).
  • Neutral: Opportunity to discuss the magick with a K question, but it being a very one sided discussion that petered out after 1 post.

I had thought that on a forum where people are interested in personal evolution and self transformation, that topics such as the disconnect from the life power which manifests itself in the subconscious, and its connection to magick and our potential to become greater than our current human nature, might be topics that would inflame discussion.

While I am correct that it is an important, even key topic which has not been intelligently discussed in the past outside very select and secretive circles, basing my analysis off the above it does seem that for now at least, there is currently zero interest in this topic here.

As such, I will save the time I would have been taking to continue the discussion on this thread and throw it towards my own personal QLQ+expansions program where it’s likely to produce worthwhile results.


This will probably get zero reads, but since it is relevant to my post on my journal and also to this topic, what the hell. Just pissing in the wind…

(By yours truly)

Long ago, in times long past,

There were hills of dapple, and fields of grass,

Curved as fair as a lady’s breast,

And names like Fairmeadow, or Inverness.

And the sun shining down, in a shimmer of heat

And the smell of the hay grass, nostalgic and sweet

The path unmade and unkempt, wild and free

Not far from the coast of old Brittany.

Arcadian realm of another time,

With a horse, and a maiden, and a spell and a rhyme

Spoken of softly, like a hidden breeze

Zealous zephyrus, oh playful tease.

Tarry with this story, listen my son

To worlds that once were, and worlds yet to come…

Perhaps they were, perhaps they shall be

In some form of archaic poetry

Bidden with power from my heart to thee.

Magic is real, when it’s woven in words

Wisely, well chosen and sung by the birds,

At bidding the pieces shall fall together

The mind shall snap its unneeded tether

And live in the story, as it has been for ever.

The moon is waxing, and soon the song,

Will rise in the air from a hum to a throng,

To paint in the air enduring and strong

A picture so vivid we’re now among

In a reverie airy one fine sunny day

Was it Spring? No, but Summer,

In her gown wild and gay,

Dancing a round dance with the Queen of the Fae

And a voice, and a light, and a sword, and a flame

And a light, and a darkness, which is also the same

And a mystery dead now to a time long gone

And the pale embers of a newcoming dawn

Tell me now, do you see it?

Tell me now, can you feel,

The warmth of the breeze?

The humors that heal?

And tell can you see him?

This young boyish lad

Inhabited by thoughts no boy ever had

Mind full of mystery, both merry and mad

A youthful body like a cross of gold,

With the heart of a ruby to behold.

Born of a love that has no hold

In the realms of the unterraformed mortal soul.

Youthful? Aye! But ancient of days

And an ardent practicioner of the old ways

Ways once thought lost, but merely obscure

Only to be grasped when the mind is pure.

Yes, he knew magic, yes, he knew truth

And the secret language (sometimes rude and uncouth)

But though his heart was polished, there was darkness there,

Subtle, but present, like a stray grey hair.

A dissonant note, like a flattened fifth

A nature not integrated, a void or a rift.

He was powerful, aye, but at war with himself

In a way that would eventually take a toll on his health.

Yet he loved – yes, indeed, perhaps greatest of all!

He spoke with the water, knew the forest’s call,

Erotically connected with the world, secretly,

Vibrating to rhythms no-one could see.

And so it was fated, the last of his kind

That a grand destiny by the fates was designed

To bring him, through a lady, though not solely alone

To provide a succor and an aid to the throne.

Through a lady? Perhaps, but his heart saw all

He was not ensnared, but in secret, his fall

And his actions, like chess moves, played out on a stage

For a greater purpose, not known in that age.

To return to our narrative, dear reader, at last,

The sun shone down upon fields of grass,

On the fairly curved tor, relaxed and at ease

Our fair boyish lad, looking all rather pleased

And the lady, before him, well met on the path

Eyes smiling and wide as a newborn calf

Sent here to find him, for reasons unclear

Transfixed for a moment, though not in fear.

Does the storyteller falter? Does he pause here? Perhaps

This story, quite ragged, like old leather scraps

Has been told before us, though never complete

Hard to do justice, to this song bitter-sweet

He drowns in the end, water filling his lungs

Coughing and spluttering, his heart’s faith stung

Mortal after all! Betray’d by his kind

For reasons tragic, as we shall soon find.

And yet, he allowed it. Perhaps knowing that

The death of the body was a mere disappearing act

And what fails in one age, in another returns

To succeed, as the Wheel of Wyrd turns, and turns.


A magician in love?


If you haven’t ever read it, you may like Patrick Rothfuss’ The Name of the Wind


Love is the law, love under will :sunglasses:

Seriously though… more to that story than could be shared in the poem. The cave exists and the death by drowning is real. Oddly enough part of this may be genetic memory. My family’s descendants on my father’s side many generations back owned the house at which the famous stone associated with the popular legend was located. Back in the 1600s.