Mental disorders and subclub

Questions and Comments
#1

I’ve always thought about this thing but never really explored it, so let’s take everyone’s opinions and discuss the following:

do mental disorders change the effects you get from subs?
do you think a personality disorder can also bring out different kinds of results?

I’ll give you all 2 examples so better illustrate this;

1- a person with antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) using Emperor, would his ASPD tendencies increase? especially if he was more to the sociopathic side of the spectrum? or could it end up bad for those around him?

2- a person with Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) using Primal Seduction, would he end up extremely manipulative and toxic to the girls he seduces? would he be more likely to keep hurting girls for his own pleasure and ego?

ill tag some people here but all of you are welcome to join the discussion

@RVconsultant @Sub.Zero @Malkuth @AlexanderGraves @Azriel @Sage_Ninjistic @Simon @StateOfBeing @Trader @Lion

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#2

@Budewr if i recall correctly, you mentioned once about you having ADHD or ADD, i assume?

and you used both RM and StarkQ for a long time, right? how did you feel? how was your attention span? how do you think the effects helped you in that context?

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#3

Results are supposed to be the same irrespective of the person

And despite the previous point, users could take different actions. For example a shy person is less likely to approach a woman showing interest due to Libertine compared to someone else.

That could be the case but we have to also remember that Emperor has healing components like Rebirth in it which could help.

PS has a healing script too.

In the end, there is good reason why SubClub usually advices therapy for those who have psychological issues. Even though subliminals can help us improve our personality, it would be wiser to take all the help we could get including medical and psychological ones.

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#4

initial responses:

  1. I’d reframe the question: ’How do subliminals interact with ongoing growth and recovery processes?' I think this is a more useful question.

why?

So-called mental disorders are categorized based on statistically-correlated common features. Those categories are somewhat static. A diagnostic label does not tell you where someone is coming from or where they are going. It describes and categorizes the condition of that person right now. Open up the DSM-5 or the ICD-10 and for each condition, you’ll see lists of qualifying criteria. Things like ‘has complained of negative mood for 1-3 months’ and so on.

By putting the label ‘diagnosis’ on these descriptions, it presents the (often) false impression that the individual’s presentation is based on a clearly-identified organic cause. But this is very often not the case.

It’s a bit like trying to predict where people are headed based on the fact that right now they’re all in the same building…but that building is a bus terminal or an airport.

In order to get a sense of the movement dynamics, we need something more than a static diagnostic label.

So, I think it makes more sense to explore the relationship between subliminals and ‘growth processes’ or ‘recovery processes’ or ‘healing processes’, rather than the relationship between subliminals and static diagnostic labels or categories.

  1. Personality disorders are among the most challenging and therapy-resistant issues. This difficulty is built into the very definition. A personality disorder is a harmful or dysfunctional perceptual or behavioral aberration that is fundamentally unacknowledged by the person who has it.

If you reflect on this, you’ll see the challenge for the subliminals. The subliminals made by Sub Club are not made to coerce or force the listener into changing his/her values or committed perceptions and beliefs.

Sub Club subliminals are based on conscious, willing participation. The very nature of a ‘personality disorder’ is such that the person has no desire to question or change this aspect of himself.

Of course, volition and intention are not so absolute or unequivocal. Even in the most stable or staunch individual, there are areas or levels that are more open to change. Life and life experiences may conspire to make change somewhat more likely. If life opens up opportunities for change and if, as a result, the person’s willingness to change undergoes some shift or transformation, then we can have a conversation.

But it’s also true that if such a shift happens, then the condition no longer meets the strictest criteria for even being a personality disorder.

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#5

Yeeeeah I’m not going up on stage after @Malkuth just dropped that performance. :thinking::joy:

All I wanna say is, i would have to think on that, but i imagine the ‘mental disorder’ would shift with everything else in the person :slight_smile:

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#6

Paranoid personality disorders is characterized by a pervasive pattern of unwarranted distrust and suspicion of others that involves interpreting their motives as malicious.

A paranoid person probably wouldn’t use subliminals because they suspect their mind to be controlled. Plus scripts are secret. So the result would be different for that personality (disorder) type: The same as not using subliminals at all.

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#7

@Lion

but then again, how much healing can a person with a personality disorder can really get? especially if they believe that they don’t have any issues?

like giving a sexual offender something like Libertine and PS:IT could end up with him doing what he wants easily and make it easy for him to keep doing it, instead of healing? or am i wrong on that?

@Malkuth

this part is what started the whole topic in my head, as i have an issue of my own (actually 2, and i see them as superpowers) and i have full acceptance of them, which has definitely gotten me results as the sales page mentioned, but at the same time, the issues never left.

@Sage_Ninjistic

But then in that context, wouldn’t it be risky for them to use subs? i can’t imagine how bad it could get for people around a psychopath who uses KHAN.

while this is true, that same paranoia could also lead to the person use the subs because of their "what if… thoughts. what then? who’s to say if it would cause more issues for them or not?

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#8

Mental disorders are entities that are defined by medicine but they yet again confirm the essential rule when it comes to the way mind programming affects us that is - everybody is different. Apart from that, mental disorders are driven by our mind biochemistry more than neuronal connections in our brain, and mind programming seems to work on them in the first place. It’s just like learning but on a deeper level, I believe. Of course, it affects that biochemistry too but not in the first place… I believe. But yes, people with those disorders “react” to mind programming in a different way than the average Joe but none us is like the average Joe so to speak.

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#9

alright i’ll give you guys some background on me as i feel like nobody here knows me that deeply (from a personality perspective) but one of my biggest issues (again, superpower) is my superiority complex, which gets inflated even more when i run WANTED.

now do i feel amazing with that? hell yeah i do, walking around and knowing im the hottest, especially with my hard work in gym and WANTED’s effect, it’s impossible not to feel like a king among peasants in public spaces, but would i want to get rid of it? definitely not. even if i lost people due to my issue, people can be easily replaced.

so then how can something like Rebirth, KHAN TB, or DR st1 do something about this when i don’t see it as a problem anyways :thinking:

P.S this is why i get high all the time :rofl:

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#10

wouldn’t that mean that no sub is the same in terms of specifics :thinking:?

like i know subliminals here often get compared to working out, but the way i see it, even if 2 people do the same exact workout routine for a full year, they’d progress and benefit way differently than each other, due to genetics, which in this context could be the mental health of a person.

but then how safe is it when the mental disorders are making the person malicious?

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#11

I wish it was true… although to some point it is true.

Saint said once that subs are static systems whilst we are dynamic systems meaning that the same static system affects you in a different way than it affects me… and even the same sub affects you in a different way at a different point in your life. I experienced that on Stark. Before the Dragon, it was a different experience than it was after running it.

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#12

“Nature always finds a way”… so somebody with a mental disorder (or a horoscope), which will become malicious, will also find another way to go into that direction without subliminals.

Plus, I guess there is karma for people who harm others.
On the physical plane this would be the police, courts, prison, social exclusion…
On the spiritual plane, it is another thing.

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#13

Think of it this way:

Before you, there stretches a road, extending to the west and extending to the east.

The arrow pointing in one direction is labeled Evolution .

The arrow in the other direction is labeled Complacency and self justification.

Which direction, this day, do you choose?

We will continue to make this choice every day of our lives.

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#14

Are we concerned about ourselves or someone else?

If we are concerned about ourselves, we will do all that we can to be the best we can be.

If we are concerned about others misusing such products, there is really nothing we can do about it except protect ourselves from being manipulated by (again) being the best we can be. SubClub also provides products like Aegis Initiative: Survival Instinct and Power Can Corrupt to be on our best game.

Even excluding subliminals, there are powerful tools that can be misused by others for their own gains and to our own detriment. All we can do is keep ourselves and our loved ones safe.

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#15

Many of them, even major ones, are in fact not sufficiently defined by medicine.

I’m not saying they’re ‘unreal’. But social norms and categories play a major role in the definitions and etiologies of these disorders.

Why is it, for example, that ‘genetically mediated’ and supposedly biologically-rooted conditions like depression and anxiety experience significant increases in prevalence with modernization and economic development?

Apparently, there’s something about modern, economically-developed societies that supports or even promotes problems of mood.

Yes, it’s also true that these problems of mood are also associated with neurochemical signatures, like deficient serotonin. But guess what? Everything we do—including writing a weekly grocery list—is associated with neurochemical signatures.

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#16

I think this is mainly due to the fact that life is somewhat easier than before, and we all know that life without obstacles becomes extremely boring to the point where you could end up depressed.
Let’s take my country for example, Qatar, it’s ranked as one of the wealthiest countries with one of the highest, if not the highest, GDPs in the world, now I live here, I see the natives, and most of the ones who work in governmental jobs (specifically ministries) are miserable, they make a lot of money for doing the bare minimum and can get most of what they desire, which ends up taking away the “flavor” of life, leading to them either becoming miserable or reckless, which is why there are a lot of crimes that happen here (that don’t get reported as much) are just because of people desire to feel something.

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#17

So after reading everything here, it seems like most of you guys here have somewhat of a “selfish” outlook on this, I don’t mean it in a bad or insulting way, but more like; you’re more concerned about yourselves and how it would affect you, instead of others. And that’s not a bad thing tbh, and in a way it’s also a very utilitarian type of an approach, but at the same time, my question was mainly asked because I wanted to explore of the “darker” mental/personality disorders and the effects they would have.

Taking this as an example, yes you could use those, but how much can we guarantee that those people wouldn’t end up doing something indirect that affects you?

Like I’ll tell you something that you could think about, if a president of a superpower country, like the US or China, or even NK, ended up using Khan with the goal of total world domination, how would would PCC or SI help you? And as we know, twisted ideas like that come from a lack of ethics and morale, which in itself comes from feeling low/no remorse (first main giveaway of ASPD).

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#18

But they could be using it already. How do powerful people get away without getting punished? Even simple tools like armies and nuclear power is enough for them to be able to do whatever they want. Maybe they use subliminals too. Maybe they have dedicated subliminal writers working for them (also subliminal programming is used to program the masses).

I think of dealing with such cases by taking personal responsibility for my life. But even with all that, I have a chance to fail too. But the probability is lessened when I do something about it rather than do nothing.

If you don’t see it as an issue, either the programming in Khan ST1 will still see it as an issue and make you reflect or it doesn’t change you at all. In the first case you reflect and see the value in humility and learn some or in the second case, you value pride because ego has its purpose. Either way you get better with Khan ST1 since you might have other beliefs which you might like to breakdown.

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#19

I don’t think subs effect a moral or ethical outlook other than perhaps if you are fulfilled and successful you will be more prone to be generative or of service without a self fixation- the full cup runneth over so to speak.

As far as ‘mental disorders’ or things on that spectrum, I believe subs can enhance certain things for the better- focus for adhd/add, calmness and safety for anxiety disorder, happiness outside of depression, and during recon the emotions/trauma insecurities that may lead to such issues can be exacerbated.

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#20

From personal experience Dragon Reborn , the first stage particularly took me from being an emotional paranoid mess to someone who can shrug off a lot of things that would previously paralyze me emotionally
I still have anxiety that I hope to resolve or lessen greatly with the following stages but I have had an incredibly difficult time moving onto and sticking with the second stage because I know how much I have been through and how much trauma I have to work through.

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