Is self-love overrated?

[Martin]

Ok, don’t get me wrong, and this is a real question.

I kind of agree with @friday here

@friday

When I look at hyper-successful people, they most often have one thing in common: Self-esteem issues. Trying to prove others wrong or working to give them a sense of superiority and validation… narcissists are channeling those “low-vibration“ qualities into immense drive that lead them to massive success and insane productivity. In truth, they don‘t desire reaching their goals but what they want is filling the void which they never will pursing external achievements. But it is this rat race and their fail to realize which provides them with a NEVER-ENDING DRIVE pushing them to greatness.

If the goal is to achieve greatness, in most real life examples (Bill Gates, Trump, Musk) I see there is

1. a narcissistic belief in one-self power to reach one’s goal and
2. a great drive to achieve.

And often for these great achievers Self-love seem secondary, and actually they fix their self love after achieving their wealth / life goals. Self-love is something that theoretically should bring more happiness in general, but I doubt that by itself it can lead to achieve greatness.
What do you think? From real life exemples or experiences.

[Flat]

Self-Love is a basic recommendation to achieve success (and stay within that success).
It isn’t itself a warranty, though, it’s simply a fundamental state of being.

Perhaps a better word would be self-acceptance.
And, even much more important, self-knowledge.

Furthermore, as with each and everything in life: it’s always a question of balance.
Too much is bad, too little is also bad.
(Too much self-love leads to narcissism, too little leads to inferiority complexes.)

[Fractal_Explorer]

Unless we sit down with all these high achievers one on one it’s only speculation. What appears to be low self esteem could be just competitive spirit mixed with normal human insecurities.

But I personally don’t think self love is overrated. Honestly I think if you don’t get that right first you’re a slave to early emotional traumas or deficits. They’ll jerk you around like a puppet on a string. For some people this manifests in smaller degrees so it’s not as big of an issue. But for others it can feel like life or death if something isn’t achieved. In any case it brings you further away from understanding yourself and your real needs in life. And that’s the most powerful thing because when you understand what you really need you’re less able to be manipulated by all the other crap out there trying to suck you in.

Now a trend I’ve seen in people who have achieved a lot, it starts early. An interest as a kid or talent for something, a supportive environment that fosters that, and a continued pursuit to strengthen that skill and fully be themselves. That alone fosters self love because at a young age they understand this core aspect of them is important.

[Leandros]

Try Self love first then there are no more questions about the topic

[Malkuth]

It’s about balance, baby.

You need enough desire to fuel your ambition to achieve.

And you need enough capacity for joy and contentment to appreciate that you’ve achieved it.

But don’t worry. We’re not static creatures. And the world isn’t static. And love is not static either.

The premise itself is flawed.

It’s kind of like asking, “Is inhaling really all that it’s hyped up to be? I’ve heard that exhaling is pretty great too.”

The answer to both would be yes.

You seek love and healing to restore yourself so that you can go out to interact with the world, make contributions, and have experiences. This inevitably leads to some micro- or macro-traumas, which require you to once again seek love and healing, which inspires you to go out to interact with and contribute to the world, which once again…

[NinjaGazin]

If you don’t have self love and self acceptance then no matter how much perceived success you achieve you will miss out on true happiness.

There is no prison that is harder to get out of then massive success without true happiness because you begin to believe the reason you are still unfulfilled is you need MORE and you end up in an eternal state of dissatisfaction.

You get what you are NOW so if you are someone who is full of lack and trying to compensate for that lack through external success NOW you will ALWAYS be someone who experiences lack even after achieving whatever you conceive “greatness” to be.

A person achieving success in any one area simply means that their mindset around that area is TUNED into success; they KNOW they will achieve success in that area and they have already accepted it happening within their minds.

So someone may have their mindset tuned into massive success through business but their mindset around relationships is based on lack so they manifest terrible relationships….well now ask yourself what is more important then your mindset around your relationship to your self?

If that relationship is not right then you don’t even know you are chasing your TRUE desires! Your true desires are not desires you chase to fill a void, your true desires are the desires that make your heart soar.

Otherwise you are EASILY manipulated no matter how rich and powerful you seem; if others can manipulate your ego through flattery or criticism you are WEAK WEAK WEAK. Why? Because you are externally controlled; ultimate power is found in no self importance.

Success means accomplishment of an aim and the first thing to accomplish in this life that leads to success in everything else is your mindset and the foundation of a successful healthy mindset is self love otherwise you will forever remain unfulfilled and trust me on this: fulfillment is bliss.

[Martin]

@NinjaGazin

If you don’t have self love and self acceptance then no matter how much perceived success you achieve you will miss out on true happiness.

@NinjaGazin have you run LBFH?

@Malkuth

You need enough desire to fuel your ambition to achieve.

And you need enough capacity for joy and contentment to appreciate that you’ve achieved it.

This reminds me of this tycoon who commited suicide because he lost 4 billions out of 9 billions worth.

Railway suicide of tycoon who lost billions

I agree with both that looking for love/validation from outside can ultimately leave you unfullfilled. But are there really that many people who love themselves without need for external validation?

@Fractal_Explorer

Unless we sit down with all these high achievers one on one it’s only speculation

I agree with @Fractal_Explorer that we won’t know if we don’t sit and speak with them but what I am saying is that self-love as a spiritual goal is nice, but Rome Europe or the USA were not build out of self love, but out of drive and often by narcissistic people.

Disclaimer : Out of this conversation, I was trying to get if I had to choose a subliminal between GLM and LBFH to help me grow, be more confident, ground myself in order to achieve something greater which one would I choose. Maybe GLM. Then if I had a more spiritual inclination to grow my self love and spread love maybe LBFH.

[Fractal_Explorer]

@Martin

Disclaimer : Out of this conversation, I was trying to get if I had to choose a subliminal between GLM and LBFH to help me grow, be more confident, ground myself in order to achieve something greater which one would I choose. Maybe GLM. Then if I had a more spiritual inclination to grow my self love and spread love maybe LBFH.

It all depends. Why do you want to achieve something greater? If you can firmly answer that question I think you’ll have more info to go off of. If it’s sort of unclear that might be an indication these aren’t your desires.

You could also do both. The drive of GLM and the LBFH to balance it. Self love really isn’t a spiritual concept, although it makes its way into a lot of teachings. Think of it this way. Lack of self love usually comes from some internalized traumas, would you want to carry on that cycle or break it?

[Malkuth]

@Martin

This reminds me of this tycoon who commited suicide because he lost 4 billions out of 9 billions worth.

There’s so much more going on in that story than what we’re talking about in this little conversation.

We often use other people’s lives as cartoonish cautionary tales or motivational examples, but the realities of life are very complex, compelling, and profound.

It’s a waste of time to judge others or yourself. You’re never going to reach a clear, satisfying judgment, and the time could have been better spent working to benefit and improve conditions.

As children, we’re taught that “Johnny is bad, and Jason is good” or whatever, but as we grow and experience, we usually find out that situations were more complicated than we realized.

Self-love is not underrated and self-love is not overrated. It’s one of many necessary elements in a healthy life. And some days you’ll need more while other days you’ll need less. Some days you’ll have more and other days, you’ll have less.

There’s not going to be a simple recipe that makes sense of everything. But we can get out here in the world and try to do the best that we can.

Don’t memorize rules to tell you if you are a decent person or not. Or to convince yourself that you’re a success or a failure. What’s the point of that? You’ll still have to life your life anyway.

We learn about life by living life and by reflecting on our and others’ experiences.

Labels and maps help but only up to a certain point.

[Malkuth]

@Martin

Rome Europe or the USA were not build out of self love, but out of drive and often by narcissistic people.

Again, you won’t be able to reduce the people who created Rome, Europe, or the USA to one simple characteristic or motivation.

In all of these regions there have been brilliant heights and abysmal, deplorable depths. There have been uncountable acts and moments of generosity, selfishness, narrow-mindedness, and broad, exalted aspiration. It’s all mixed together in there.

Sometimes the same man who was philanthropic to an entire community was also vicious in some other communities, and may even have ended up imprisoned.

Humans are complicated.

[NinjaGazin]

I have run LBFH but not for very long.