Irreversible life

[GoldenBird]

@Wonders

Because I am not the same person I was a day ago or even one hour ago, and neither am I the same person that I will be an hour from now.
Our perspective and circumstances always keep evolving in the present.

“We both step and do not step into the same river, we both are and are not” - Heraclitus

You are conveniently only citing Heraclitus for his observation of change/flux, but missing his point in doing so. Why do you think he mentions the river being the same? From what we can re-construct from his fragments, his philosophy was about discovering permanence within change.
The original fragment emphasizes the changing material of the river while implying a persistent identity of the river itself, rather than advocating for some chaotic flux. I keep seeing people mischaracterizing Heraclitus as some philosopher of pure, unending change, and this is likely driven by projecting modern existentialist/nihilist(yolo framework) onto him.
For him, the Logos, which is a deeper, eternal unity of opposites, could be reached through resolving contradictions found within change and looking for what observes change- not dissimilar to what Vedantins in India still do when they re-direct their attention from ever changing thoughts to the observer of the thoughts.

@Wonders

Thus, even if our inner Spirit go through death and is later reborn in a body on Earth somewhere, sometime as @Evolver described;
even then we would only live this life in these circumstances with this skillset and perspective once as the author says. because our skillset, perspective, and circumstances would have changed.

Your argument here assumes that rebirth- if its happens- is some kind of total reset where nothing carries over except for some vague spirit.
That contradicts both the traditions that gave rise to the concept of rebirth and newer Western studies on reincarnation.
Professor Ian Stevenson of the Uni of Virginia spent some four decades on verifying memories of young children- memories they could not possibly have had if they had no access to a previous life-
he documented cases where children recalled verifiable details of a deceased stranger’s life, had unusually developed abilities, bore birthmarks matching their previous incarnation’s fatal wounds, or exhibited specific phobias directly tied to the manner of death. And these are only the surface indicators of the transfer of information across lifetimes.
What he did is only part of mounting research on similar cases- there is also interesting case studies in past life regressions. Here is a summary of some of that research: Reincarnation research
Secondly, the traditions that explicitly talk about reincarnation make it perfectly clear that the mechanism is not randomness, but causal responsibility. Your skillset, perspectives and circumstances are not random, but the very result of past-like actions(i.e. karma). If true, that points towards a continuum of identity across lives, not a series of disconnected episodes. The whole meaning of it disappears if you reduce rebirth to a mere change of scenery. The meaning being learning, and the evolution of consciousness through cause and effect explored through lessons experienced in ever-changing circumstances.

[SoulFire]

I agree with every lifetime is unique just as every moment is unique and will never be the same again.

We’ve all experienced it in our life, similar circumstances that don’t bring the same experience.

It’s especially obvious with very delightful experiences, even when recreating the same circumstances with the same people it will not ever be the same again.

Realizing impermanence, accepting, witnessing, enjoying every moment as the new and unique creation that it is is a massive achievement in a human life.

[Wonders]

I’m not sure if this is an issue of language, but it seems there is a misunderstanding, as I agree on multiple points.

@GoldenBird

The original fragment emphasizes the changing material of the river while implying a persistent identity of the river itself, rather than advocating for some chaotic flux.

I never said the flux is chaotic.
I only said both the structure of the river and the structure of the Man changes.
both are and are not. Just like I both am the person I was a minute ago and am not.
but like, it’s not chaotic, it’s an evolution.
I agree with the rest of the paragraph.

@GoldenBird

Your argument here assumes that rebirth- if its happens- is some kind of total reset where nothing carries over except for some vague spirit.

Never implied that either.
the Spirit, as described in many traditions, scriptures, and sacred texts, is nothing but vague or random. and neither is the Soul.
I don’t deny the possibility to carry over experiences from past lives, as experiences leave an imprint on the maya veils that form the Spirit vessel.
I myself have memories and skills carried over from past lives, though I am no longer that person. (again, both am and am not as Heraclitus would say)
Hence why I said “as Evolver described”, I agree with his description on all points but Immortality (As I know of the possibility for the Spirit vessel to dissolve into the All nibbana/samsara ensemble in at least two ways.)

@GoldenBird

Secondly, the traditions that explicitly talk about reincarnation make it perfectly clear that the mechanism is not randomness, but causal responsibility. Your skillset, perspectives and circumstances are not random, but the very result of past-like actions(i.e. karma). If true, that points towards a continuum of identity across lives, not a series of disconnected episodes.

Again, I entirely agree with that and never implied any randomness.
I used the word evolution, precised that we have access to all this knowledge, and used the analogy of night and day for a reason. The cycle of night and day is anything but random.

I do disagree on the fact that “my” past lives were my lives (“mine”) however, I don’t identify with them; and I believe that’s one -if not the- main diverging view between us.
My experiences lead me to believe that I only got a single life in this body, under this identity, in this time period. (all of these circumstances aggregated together) hence why I agree with the Author.

Buddhism classify the belief in a permanent individual self as a wrong view, satkāyadṛṣṭi.

[GoldenBird]

@Wonders

I do disagree on the fact that “my” past lives were my lives (“mine”) however, I don’t identify with them; and I believe that’s one -if not the- main diverging view between us.
My experiences lead me to believe that I only got a single life in this body, under this identity, in this time period. (all of these circumstances aggregated together) hence why I agree with the Author.

A question that comes to my mind is that, if the past life is not ‘yours’ in any meaningful sense, how can its karmic consequences be ‘yours’ to experience and resolve?

Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that when Buddhists, for example, invoke anatta to deny the permanence of a “carrier”, they often struggle to explain how this actually works out in practical, daily life. They affirm that something reincarnates, but they do not like essentialists, so they say that some stream of consciousness gets reborn. But then the acute danger is that non-identification is the fruit of deep insight, not its starting position. So while some people just try their best to work their karma out, these type of Buddhists pretend a lot and it is not clear how that helps them. They verbally accept karma and continuity while they also emotionally distance themselves from its implications. Do you get what I mean? I don’t think they meant these things so that people adopt them as a philosophical opinion, because then it can easily turn into a spiritual bypass of sorts.

In any case, I wanted to simply clarify the issues with the YOLO doctrine.
If you only live once, your mistakes die with you, and responsibility is abdicated. If your consciousness continues(no matter if it is a thing or a process that incarnates), you carry the consequences with you, which should change the way you act.

[Wonders]

@GoldenBird I totally agree on the YOLO nihilist view of nothing matter isn’t really useful because belief that what we do do matter leads way further in life, and to way more experiences.

I see it as if, when I plant a seed and a tree grows, and it’s fruits feeds many people and animals. And then these animals and people die and become nutrients to either feed plants, maggots or other animals. And some of the fruits of that tree also carry seeds that may be planted or dropped by birds.

So if/when I reincarnate, I may feed on the fruits of that tree, or something that derive from the fruits of that tree. (Like, a painting done by a painter that got the idea from seeing that tree, or drinking cider made by an artisan whose family initially used that tree to start their business before planting or buying an orchard)

And similarly when these “seeds” are ideas and actions upon the world.

But it is not owed to me per se, it’s just a natural consequence that when we do good upon the world it echoes and bring further good. Or that this good may be experienced directly if we are interacting with a past or future life. (Two of the ways it may be experienced, there are others)

But as we may not know for sure who is a past or future life, it is not really useful to stay attached to trying to find them out and decrypt them.
That time and efforts are better spent living that life we got in the first place, furthering understanding of workings, improving skills, taming the mind-body ensemble, selfless service, etc.
There are a lot of things we can do!

Further, insight into Dharma and Karma workings leads to understanding of Life as a kind of school. (And at the very least, this is a useful view)
Whenever a situation arise, all the people present have something to learn from said situation.
And even if they don’t think they learned anything, maybe a seed was planted in their mind in their subconscious, and maybe their presence actions or words was a catalyst for growth for another person.

(Upon reflection, this may be useful for the author as well to understand how they may influe upon the world, and understanding the fullness of life there already is in every moment. Every single thing we do matters.)

When we don’t learn from a situation, we’ll keep repeating the same or similar actions that led to the situation in the first place.
If I get mugged every time I go to that dark alley near the stadium and I keep going there, there’s a high chance I’m gonna continue being mugged, until I either stop going there, or until I learn how to defend myself, or until I go to the police and the mugger get arrested.

But what leads to reincarnation as explained by Gautama Buddha is attachment to the fruits of what we do (success or failure), the craving for physicality, the craving for consciousness, the craving for joy or aversion to bad stuff (both emotional attachments, anchors). As well as ignorance of said mechanism and cravings.

So in a sense (extremely simplified), we keep starting another game of life in another avatar (be it human, animal, deity, ghost, demon, angel, progenitor, etc.) because we either forgot we were playing in the first place or like playing/want to play in the theater of life.

Personally I’m in the second group, I like playing.

[SoulFire]

Don’t sweat it too much guys, the information you get from buddhism and hinduism and other famous religions about reincarnation, karma and the meaning of life is incomplete, tip of the iceberg.

The truth is fortunately far wider, more complex and more diversified than this.

We are not victims of our lives and circumstances, there is nothing to escape from.

Our existence in this human body is a conscious choice (for those with a soul).

Guys there is so much to this world that would freak out the average person if it was revealed, science fiction is closer to science than fiction let’s just say, don’t get too caught up in old religious ideas and concepts, there’s a lot to discover in this life right here right now.

[Malkuth]

@Skadoosh

@Simurg27

Since we only come to this life once, what do you think we should do to look back and say we lived life to the fullest?

Immerse yourself in the moment, one moment at a time.

Yup.

Don’t look back. Look now.

If (if) you only come once, where are you finding so much time to look back?

[Wonders]

100% agree with that.
There is infinite potential within every person.
And by immersing ourselves fully within the present with clarity of mind, we may feel it fully.
And through action, we may realise that infinite potential.

We have all the keys to become anyone we want to be and do whatever we want to do.
All is already available within us and both subs and meditation help us access it, because they help us communicate with our unconscious.

We are the creator of our own life.

[dead]

Knowing what truly matters to you when it comes to what you choose to do in your life is often more than enough. We think we know what matters to us but I was able to only see through such facade after certain experiences or practices. Until then I was oblivious to myself. Lay down and imagine being in your deathbed - literally about to pass away any coming minute - for half an hour lol. Maybe even longer. Maybe you’ll realise a thing or two as well once you’re done mourning yourself.