Having read some recommendations from eternitys_child and dorfmeister from another forum I felt the need to checkout the website. So far, I’m still quite skeptical but I decided to take a jump into unknown waters and bought Limitless and may be purchasing Emperor in the somewhat near future. Currently a college student that lacks discipline which is the reason why I bought Limitless first. I’ll be setting up a journal to document my journey and help out anyone who may be interested. A shame that I was a few days late towards getting the discount and the experimental Limitless X version but I’ll have to make do with what I have.
Welcome to Subliminal Club — very glad you decided to give us a chance.
Here’s the thing — what’s informing your skepticism? And I don’t say this as an attack. I’m offering a question for self reflection.
Healthy skepticism means not coming to a conclusion before testing for yourself — as you’ve done, so I commend you for that. But modern “skeptics” are actually just lazy, saying they don’t “believe” in something until “science” (re: other people) prove it for me.
When dealing with things like subliminals and law of attraction (I saw your other post), belief plays an incredibly powerful role. If you enter believing it won’t work, it won’t. Many people take issue with that idea because on the surface, it sounds like a cop out. But that’s thing — great things await those of us willing to explore beyond the limits of conventional human knowledge. Humanity has existed for a blink of an eye on a cosmic scale, and somehow we’ve convinced ourselves that we know everything there is to know about the nature of existence, when in actuality, we don’t even understand ourselves.
That’s an interesting way to look at things but I would say that genuine skeptics are not wrong in thinking that the science has to be sound in order to believe in something. Skepticism comes from a place of a need to understand something and to make sure something that claims to work (essential oils for cancer, conspiracy theories, etc.) are actually real. I would not recommend someone to try alternative medicine or essential oils in order to figure out if it works, the science already proves that it doesn’t. Nobody likes to believe in something that doesn’t work and waste their time and money with the addition of possibly hurting someone’s chances of actually succeeding. In a way I don’t think it’s lazy, the right words would be ‘absolutely sure’ to not harm others or themselves.
As to why I bought Limitless and how it relates to skepticism, I think there are several reasons for that. One of them would be the fact that I’ve heard many good things of subliminals in general and specifically from subliminalclub from a lot of users. That would count as anecdotal evidence and while it may not be strong when it happens to an individual, if it happens to a large group of people it warrants a need for scientific testing or personal testing. Secondly the science seems to be real despite being a bit old (1980s from your science section) and it strengthens my decision and lessens any lingering doubt. I think any real skeptic would be open and willing to believe in your products if given the chance to be convinced.
I think blind belief is dangerous but what you’re saying seems to be closer to be evidence based belief (at least for subliminals) which makes sense and I do believe in what you’re saying on how those things only work if you believe in them. The placebo effect is a real thing (though I’m not necessarily implying yours are) and subliminals seems to work in the background so belief may be the catalyst or fuel for it to work. I believe science is slow when it comes to the more esoteric side of things like subliminals due to a lack of funding and interest which is why I’m willing to give it a chance like so many others. I hope you understand how I and many other skeptics view things. In any case I do think what you’re doing is genuine and I hope you do well in advancing human society
Here’s the problem with “science,” and this is coming from someone incredibly pragmatic, yet open minded. When we’re testing if something is “true” or not, we’re constrained by the limitations of our current knowledgebase. And in the scientific community, the only way to expand that set of knowledge is through very expensive tests and trials — both of which are predominantly funded by big pharma or the military. Seriously, look at the funding for even things like particle colliders. The military has its hands all over it. So, if a particular idea can’t get the funding, it’ll never be tested formally and thus declared scientifically invalid, which those skeptics automatically write off.
Enter subliminals, a form of self-development that marries technology and esoteric thought (see hermeticism). Despite the fact that science has proven over and over that subliminal messaging DOES have value (see the science page at our website), I still continually run into “skeptics” that claim it’s all bunk or placebo.
It’s a ridiculous idea, because in order to maintain that worldview, they have to make the claim that the thousands of people that have received life changing benefits from subliminals are all engaging in a mass delusion and only they know the truth… without even trying one.
Thus, I base my beliefs on a mixture of science, intuition, evidence and personal experience.
New customer too (Limitless)
I simply don’t understand the placebo argument…
Why should I care if I get the results by “real science” or if I just believe hard enough (or am delusional enough) to get the results anyway?
I agree with most of your points, science in an ideal world would be the advancement of knowledge of all fields whether they be mainstream or niche. However due to way our world is set up, it is instead made to progress only where there is monetary benefit to do so by companies or governments. This is the cost of a capitalistic society and it has it’s benefits since what is most desired by companies are generally mostly desired by people. This does mean however that anything that is not immediately or clearly profitable or useful to these entities are sidetracked. Scientists are mostly paid by companies and governments
Almost 75% of U.S. clinical trials in medicine are paid for by private companies
That’s the ‘problem’ with science, if something unpopular isn’t researched it’s validity isn’t analysed and at that point it’s up to the general consumer to make it popular enough to be considered for research. Those “skeptics” that write it off are really close minded since a true skeptic knows that if an idea isn’t tested scientifically it shouldn’t be written off automatically.
See the problem happens if the following situations do occur
1)The person doesn’t believe strong enough
2)The belief isn’t able to cure something despite it’s strength (regrowing an arm)
3)The person isn’t conscious or sane
4)The placebo isn’t as reliable/effective as the actual medicine
So taking a sugar pill might be all you need to cure your flu, but it might not reliably cure your tumour. I don’t doubt that the mind is capable of amazing things but advancements in medicine and science should be acknowledged as advancing human society so that we don’t really depend on placebos to work. Scientists know that placebos do work sometimes but when it doesn’t it can be fatal.
I agree on these points, I should have written a more detailed message
I’m talking more about in the context of self development.
Be it hypnotism, subliminal or some release technique etc. if you can get the results you are looking for then I don’t see why it should matter.
I’d add one thing - the idea should be tested using positive examples.
What I mean is - someone kept repeating to me that they proved NLP does not work.
(First as sceptic, I refuse to believe anyone who says something has been proven not to work, but does not show evidence of that… I find people who do not trust something works without evidence, but trust something doesn’t without, because it fits their BIAS, being biggest hypocrites in the world.)
Being that to get NLP to work (in area of influencing others) it takes mastering a lot of disciplines (including self… like being able to feel extatic or curious on command), someone who does not know how to do it, will always prove it does not work. But if something does not work for you, it doesn’t mean it does not work.
Therefore, real sceptic has to always be sceptical about the test itself.
Are the criteria set by the scientist valid for something to be proven?
Are the results proof or just an additional data that asks for more tests to be done?
Do I trust the scientist himself? (and there are plenty you should not trust)
NLP did a clever thing. They chose examples of people who were successful at something and looked at what made them successful. Therefore for scientists, first they should look at examples that claim something is in a way that they would like to (because, you should always try to find something that is beneficial and of use for human race). Even if something is placebo (which is mind and subconscious power), then you should look if you can reproduce those same placebo effects into someone else.
Industries and government = codespeak for big pharma and military. In the United States, most universities are publicly funded… by the government. Student tuition isn’t enough to keep a big school open. So it may seem that the university itself is funding the projects, but the money is directed st projects with future practical use. Case in point, the narcolepsy drug / popular nootropic Modafinil was originally developed to promote extreme wakefulness in snipers.
I completely agree with that. My major was psychology in college, and one professor always told me to read the research. I did, and found solutions that worked, but were not promoted due to the lack of profit it might bring in. In fact, a major reason mental health became such a big thing in the 80’s and 90’s is not due to sudden increases in problem cases. It was merely because insurance companies would now pay for such care. It dwindled rapidly when insurance no longer included such services.
I also learned from different avenues how dishonest “controlled studies” can be. With a flip of a pen, one study can be suddenly “wildly successful”. Pharmaceutical companies do this often since insurance companies pay BIG money for meds. And a vast majority of people do not question the reason why they’re prescribed something.
In college, I learned how to do my own research. This paid off big for my fiance who had a rare brain disorder from the many contraceptives she’d been on when younger. Extra fluids would build up in the brain, and her body thought she was dying, shown by extreme weight gain.
I knew the symptoms were similar to glaucoma, so I researched altenative remedies in scholarly studies. I found that high doses of Vitamin C passed the blood brain barrier, and released this fluid. It worked, and she was able to pull off her disruptive big pharma meds. She’s had no problems in over 15 years.
But I found that answer in a single study done in Asia. Vitamin C isn’t profitable for drug pushers. But many things in life they gloss over so someone is receiving funding–for products not meant to heal anyway.
I just got on a long rant. Solutions do abound. But looking for them, or knowing where to look, is what saved me.
Check your research. All your research. The answers are definitely out there.
12-24-18 @ 3:40 PM;
Congratulations for doing your own research and helping find a natural solution to help and heal your fiance over her health condition. And yes there are natural ways to heal just about any condition, but the powers that be, aka the FDA here in the states, will fine and jail just about anyone that announces a natural cure for an ailment, mostly because they go to bed with big pharma, and will use their power/authority to protect the drug industry in an attempt to prevent the losses of millions, if not billions of dollars they make yearly.