I suspect that we have some points of agreement. But the original thread felt like it was getting derailed. I’ve created this thread in case you want to present or discuss some of your evidence.
It seems to me that I agree with some of your underlying points, but disagree with both 1) the degree of nuance with which you’re presenting those points and 2) some of the implications and leaps that you’re making on the basis of those points.
Sure, so for the statement:
“When I must compete or be observed while performing a task, I become so nervous or shaky that I do much worse than I would otherwise.”
The person becomes nervous or shaky = anxiety = fear
So what’s causing that response and why?
“Competition or being observed while performing a task.”
Let’s understand the “being observed” from a logical perspective.
The state of going from
Calm/Neutral —> Nervous/Anxious FEAR state
is caused by 1 variable, which is… other people observing.
It’s 100% in the MIND, meaning, as soon as your MIND understands that you are being observed, then it triggers a transition into a fear based state.
So the cause is in the MIND and it’s based off of a conclusion in your mind, which is essentially what a subconscious belief is.
This is not a “compelling argument” and none of this is my opinion or belief, or requires evidence.
It’s pretty much 2+2=4.
But either way, what this statement is really talking about is performance anxiety, which is well documented in psychology and it’s all over the internet. It’s not rocket science,
Look, in 1 minute of googling:
“Performance anxiety in sports, sometimes referred to as “choking,” is described as a decrease in athletic performance due to too much-perceived stress. Perceived stress often increases in athletes
on game day because (1) they have an audience and (2) they have extremely high expectations of their success. **This type of stress is often based on the way the athletes interpret the situation. It is
rarely the external situation that causes stress, but rather the way the athlete’s self-talk describes the situation that creates feelings of stress, anxiety, and fear.”
Here, this is from an online dictionary I just googled in 10 seconds lol
performance anxiety:
apprehension and fear of the consequences of being unable to perform a task or of performing it at a level that will raise expectations of even better task achievement. Test anxiety is a common example of performance anxiety. Other examples include fear of public speaking, participating in classes or meetings, playing a musical instrument in public, and eating in public.
If the fear associated with performance anxiety is focused on negative evaluation by others, embarrassment, or humiliation, the anxiety may be classified as a social phobia.
As you can see, it’s completely based on FEAR based belief systems that NEED to be addressed by the individual.
The degree of nuance I’m presenting these points with is because they’re not pulled from my butt lol, it’s connected to a lot of things, pretty straightforward, concrete, simple and basic logic without any flaw. Any unnecessary overcomplication of something so simple is likely a fear based belief system trying to perpetuate itself by distorting logic,
I used subliminals to remove most of my approach anxiety.
Before when I approached a woman, I would be nervous as hell lol, does that mean I’m highly sensitive?
Should I recommend to the creators of the test the following statement:
“When I must speak to an attractive woman or am observed by an attractive woman, I become so nervous or shaky that I stutter”
My nervous system was surely going crazy in response to a stimulus… clearly I’m an HSP.
Lol yeah… No
It’s just fear based belief systems in the subconscious mind, and once you let go of those then you can pretty much do anything.
What are some of the elements, in your view, that might underlie or contribute to an individual’s development of the “bad subconscious belief“ of performance anxiety or approach anxiety?
Are all people, again in your view, equally likely to develop such anxiety?
Or, to clean up my question a little bit more:
If exposed to identical environments and identical experiences, do you believe that all people would have relatively equal likelihoods of developing the subconscious fear-based “bad belief systems” of performance anxiety and approach anxiety?
As far as approach anxiety goes, at least for men, I think that a lot of it has to do with how the first girl you expressed interest in reacted.
I’m talking about back in elementary school, before you even knew what guys and girls really did with each other.
That first reaction, and how you felt about it becomes your expectation for every subsequent approach even if you don’t consciously remember the incident.
As far as athletic performance goes, I think that a lot of it is imposter syndrome. If you’re really good and then have a bad day once, you start to wonder if all of the prior performance was a fluke. If you’ve got your ego tied up in your athletic prowess, those doubts can be very distressing.
So, for you @COWolfe, past experiences are the primary (or, a primary) influence on subconscious orientations and perceptions; at least those orientations and perceptions that contribute to anxiety.
Do you share the same view, @Luther24?
It’s definitely A primary one, at least for that. I suspect it’s the primary one. How you feel about it makes a difference too. I suspect if the first girl shoots you down, and you don’t care and didn’t feel hurt or embarrassed, I bet it wouldn’t have that bad of an effect.
However, if she shoots you down cruelly and it hurts you, it will cause trauma and that will be your expectation until you really work on yourself.
And now we go a little deeper;
because what factors might we imagine that might make it more or less likely for one to feel a particular way about that experience?
But I don’t want to go too far here without checking in with @Luther24. This topic was inspired by his points.
Subconscious programming → fear based belief systems → anxiety
I disagree, because
If a man approaches an attractive woman for the 1st time ever and he gets brutally rejected, causing it to be a negative traumatic experience. Yes, that negative trauma will cause them to have a fear around approaching women in the future.
That being said, the process of that entire experience and the result of it, itself is predicated off of fear based belief systems, meaning it’s superseded (it doesn’t start there).
Subconscious programming → fear based belief systems → formulation of negative trauma → anxiety
That’s why, when you let go of a trauma, very little of the work has to do with the actual trauma itself. If you could just let go of a negative trauma within it’s own context, there wouldn’t be a negative trauma in the first place.
What you’re really doing is reframing or letting go of the fear based belief system that allowed for the negative trauma to be created so that it loses its power.
What, in your view, are the origins of a person’s subconscious programming?
As a child, most of your subconscious programming comes from family, people, community, teachers, education system, society, environment, media, tv shows etc.
You’re in pure download mode, creating conclusions about life, reality and self. That’s why a child’s predominant brain wave state is Theta,
Their subconscious minds are like eager sponges lol
They are also creating belief systems through mimicing, because of the evolutionary incentive to fit in with the herd.
One of the most common false belief systems that nearly everyone picks up is the programming of your self-worth to be external.
So bringing us back to that example where:
a man approached a woman and was brutally rejected resulting in trauma
That experience was filtered and perceived through a fear based belief system. When the woman rejected him, his self-worth, self-esteem and mood took a hit to the point where he experienced painful emotional damage.
His self-worth, self-esteem and perception of himself wasn’t powerfully grounded or strongly anchored to anything internally, as that’s not what his subconscious beliefs were programmed to reflect.
If they were then his self-worth, self-esteem and mood wouldn’t be affected at all, and the experience would be filtered through his subconscious beliefs in a way where trauma can’t be created. He might even feel good as he as he could learn something from the failure. It’s an entirely different perception of the event.
In order for that individual to let go of that trauma, they would have to do what I mentioned earlier:
in this case, it would be strengthening your self worth and sense of self, separating it from the rejection.
from a quick google on rejection:
"The experience of rejection can lead to a number of adverse psychological consequences such as loneliness, low self-esteem, aggression, and depression.[4]
It can also lead to feelings of insecurity and a heightened sensitivity to future rejection."
This is pretty much an array of negative results but all stemming from the same root which is a weak sense of self/worth that is externally based, hence why it was able to crumble so easily. This is also the case for people that are sensitive to rejection lol
from another quick google:
A study conducted by Blackhart et al. (2009) showed that rejection causes a greater emotional impact than acceptance. This is likely because rejection, or ostracism, leads to dehumanization, or the sense that one is less of a person than other people, specifically those being accepted (Bastian & Haslam, 2010; Mao et al., 2018).
I have read your views. Thank you.