I don’t get it
If you read the salespage then there is no confusion at all
Those numbers make zero sense, lol
It’s going to feed the min/maxing perfectionist crap and create an illusion of objective superiority between subliminals.
I can argue that it does the opposite of the intended goal and creates less distinction.
If Mogul and RICH are both 5/5 wealth, does that really tell you anything useful?
It can make subliminals seem very similar and on the same level when in actuality they are completely different subliminals with different mechanisms.
New forum user:
“Hi guys, I’m a bit confused about Mogul and RICH. You see they are both rated 5/5 wealth so which one should I use and which one is better?”
Distinction when it comes to subliminals should never be found through abstract instrinsic number values because subliminals are incredibly personal and subjective (even moreso on ZP),
Given how people’s minds work, they are just going to look at numbers and not think about things.
They are going to put too much value on those abstract numbers when
what really needs to be discussed and pinpointed are YOUR goals, objectives, intentions, aspirations etc relative to your circumstances, endeavors and visions, etc.
Adding those numbers does more bad than good and will be misleading.
Each of these subliminals is a 5/5 in all areas of what they set out to accomplish.
I just saw a question where someone asked the differences between PS, S&S and WANTED.
Wanted = physical shifting
PS = inner + outergame
S&S = outer game
That’s crystal clear distinction in 3 seconds and enough information to figure out what one would need.
Here’s the thing:
Most people aren’t unclear about what the subliminals do…
They are unclear about what their GOALS are.
Read that 20x times, lol
Again…
It’s not that the product descriptions are unclear, it’s that their goals aren’t clear.
and the cringey part that my Emperor ZP mindset doesn’t jive with,
is that instead of taking responsibility and making their goals clearer, most people want to be handheld and have shit dumbed down to their level of clueless understanding to relieve
their sense of aimlessness.
No amount of handholding, and product description changes is going to change the fact that one needs to have clear goals.
There is more than enough distinction between subliminal products if you have clear goals.
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@Leandros No confusion to you.
To add more detail, the 2 main problems I see precisely are:
- large amounts of information given when others want something more concise and direct to the point
- extravagant/grandiose-sounding claimed benefits (which I will note could be true)
It’s been thought but is not the case that Objectives fully solves these problems. It didn’t because, while Objectives are immensely beneficial to be added over the original text description, they’re not concise and still sound extremely over-promising.
The issue of sounding over-promising comes down to the S (sensing) vs N (intuition) dichotomy. An S type is going see all these claims and be like “yeah right”.
A good option would be a simple list of goals to say “if you have goal X, use this sub”. That should be a limited list of goals, not the 20 objectives which amount to “use Mogul because it will do everything in the universe relating to money”. Then you read the R.I.C.H. sales page and it basically says “use R.I.C.H. because it will do everything in the universe relating to money”. So, as an example, something more useful would be a section like
Use Mogul if:
- you want to start a business and are still in the ideas phase
- you aren’t highly financially skilled and want to generally improve
- a combination of the above
- end list about here- not 20 more objectives
(that’s just an example, not what I’m saying to put)
Now, I think I’ve gathered some understanding on my own after 3 months of hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours reading on this forum so that the sales pages don’t need to be improved for the sake of LikeADrug’s understanding. However, it is a very legitimate point that has been brought up by some users that it is a bad experience for many customers trying to understand the product descriptions. Sure, many of you on the forum can understand it, but the many different types of people reading are not represented.
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I could not agree with this more, that is also my reason as to why a ‘number’ system would be detrimental.
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If that is the case, the SubliminalClub should provide instruction informing as such. If a variety of different subliminals will work for the same goal and none should be seen as superior, they should say that obviously and explicitly somewhere. Because people like me will be like “why do these 2 products say they do the same thing in different words?”
However, the point (about illusory superiority) can be taken to against what is often said on this forum, for example that certain people should not run sub X because they’re not prepared, implying another sub would be superior in a certain case.
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If they just put the product name on the salespage then I would talk about confusion
But that is not the case
Yet, you cherry picked very specific details from the sales pages. Someone would have to dig and analyze forum posts for hours to know these descriptions as the actual essences of the products.
How do you suggest people choose clear goals that are good for them?
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This is where our differences lie.
They use different words precisely because they do different things, and someone’s inability to discern the differences between the words used should not blame their inability to do so on the founders. This is not a failure of the writer, but of the reader.
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It’s not a failure, it’s a difference in approach.
That’s not true at all.
He’s referring to this thread, I’d like you to look at the first half of my response (the only reply in the thread actually):
I literally just used quotations not even from the detailed description, but from the short blurb description. That alone gives enough information to differentiate between the 3.
How is it a difference in approach? The sales pages clearly describe the subliminals in detail, and do so in a way that differentiate one from another. Not being able to see that difference is a shortcoming on the part of the reader.
The difference is that certain types want you to tell them what to do as opposed to giving them information.
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Ok I looked at your linked thread. The concise descriptions alone you gave would have not confused me if those were either alone on the sales page or somehow labeled as the most important information. Some people have a problem with extraneous information. When there is a large page of text, IDK what is important so it tends to lead me to overanalyzing trying to figure out what the intention is of including all this text which (a) repeats itself and (b) repeats other product pages.
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Great ideas I think Saint and fire may use these ideas in the updated sales Page .
A highly accurate point but applied without sufficient nuance (and tact).
The original poster of this thread has highly detailed goals and is among the most non-conformist, independent posters on the forum. He sees what he wants and asks for it, regardless of what anyone else is saying or doing.
His desire for information is less that of a ‘child wanting handholding’, and more that of an obsessively-detailed engineer or physicist who wants an equation for the exact movements of each of the waves in the ocean.
It’s unlikely that the idea quoted in that original post would truly be useful for most users of subliminals. It robs users, a bit too much, of the power of imagination, creativity, and independent personal vision. (In my opinion, of course.)
But there may be possible, additional refinements to the descriptions that might appeal more to those with tangibility-focused preferences.
@MadaraUchiha Enhanced descriptions are (or were) on the road map. This seems to be in-process. I do not think that attempts at precise quantification in the descriptions will be helpful for the great majority of users. No amount of charts or tables can eliminate the importance of the subjective, intuitive dimensions of the mind.
But maybe working with customer service and the Roadmap could lead to some refinement that could help. Maybe not. Don’t know.
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I disagree, it’s 100% handholding, 100% of the time, lol
Show me the original poster’s “highly detailed goals” along with their confusion with products in relation to those goals and I’ll show you exactly what is wrong with those goals and why they aren’t “highly detailed”.
Here’s a hint:
If you think that it’s a legitimate point, show me.
Since these different type of unrepresented people aren’t here, lol
Do you have trouble finding the right subliminal because of the product descriptions?
Share your goals and tell me what you’re confused about with products.
There is a flaw in logic behind the jump from having clear goals and then not being able to choose a subliminal based off of the current product descriptions.
What you’re going to see, is that 100% of the time, the goals are too vague and not premised around anything concrete or specific enough especially on an introspective personal level to the individual. That’s what I mean by a clear goal.
The less clearer your goals are, the more confused you’re going to be and the more you’re going to believe that it’s a legitimate point.
Anyone who has an issue with the descriptions,
Show me a list of concrete goals that you aim to accomplish…
One of my goals is to create new channels and pathways for revenue and maximize my financial potential while experiencing rapid internal growth (and external results) in every aspect of my life where money and wealth are involved.
So I’m using Mogul ZP.
I have a clear goal and the sub has my goal written on it. What else do I have to do?
One of my other goals was to physically look more attractive to women, so I used WANTED ZP for about 94 days now and still counting.
Show me the confusion, in the product descriptions… in relation to your clear goals.
No one is “trying to understand” them, they’re not ancient egyptian hieroglyphics, lol
They’re written in clear english
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This is a great example of how to give a strawman argument.
People are discussing a system to illustrate the DIFFERENCES between subliminals. They wouldn’t both be 5/5 on wealth because in my estimation anyways, “wealth” wouldn’t be a category.
See my posts on what I believe distinctions within categories would be and then tell me if anything you said still holds up after reading it.
“Well little timmy, as you can see here, Mogul and RICH actually differ in a lot of ways. Look at the chart! Mogul is more focused on internalized results, it’s fast acting, doesn’t require any income streams to get maximum benefits off of, and it’s a sub that changes your personality. It’s also light, but not as light as RICH. Meanwhile, RICH is more focused on manifestation, it’s extremely light, and it doesn’t do so much for your personality like the multitude of things Mogul does, apart from getting you obsessed about money. So, Little Timmy, to answer your question based on the chart, I guess it’s safe to say that if you have a business already and just want to manifest some extra wealth from it quickly, you could listen to RICH. However, if you want to start a business, or you want to make your business have better systems so that it can hit a record year this year, then, MOGUL would be the way to go. And of course, later on down the road, you can replace mogul with EOG or HOM. RICH is more of a stacking module, like you can see on the chart, so it’s actually something that’s always easy and able to put into any stack of your choosing, whereas with mogul you would eventually upgrade it for another denser subliminal.”
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The only way I would justify ranking something in these broad categories like “Wealth” and “seduction” and “social dominance” would be on the cross-genre major programs. Mainly emperor, chosen, wanted, stark, ascended mogul, ascension, HOM, seductress, and Khan.
That’s IT. These would get a high level overview explaining approximately what they focus on, but then what would go into depth would be the specifics of the sub… light vs heavy… short term vs long term… internal vs manifestation, etc.
EOG, Mogul, Sex & Seduction, Elixir, Love Bomb, and almost all the other subs would fall PURELY into one category, and would get compared only to other subliminals within their category.
Mogul and EOG are both 5/5 wealth focused, aka pure wealth subliminals, but are COMPLETELY different in every way, and therefore if we designed a system that ranked eog and mogul both as 5/5 wealth, well, that would be a completely idiotic system that wouldn’t help anybody, which is why I am saying you’re making a strawman argument.
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I disagree. While people are discussing a system to differentiate between subliminals, it’s hard to deny that a person looking into subs for the first time would look at these as objective rankings of each sub, and will lead to those people attempting to ‘maximize’ their stats instead of picking the best sub for them.
Mogul being more focused on internalized results than RICH, by itself is a piece of vague and useless information.
It’s only useful when it’s given context, like in the product description.
Why would you have this outlying piece of useless information without context (chart), when you can get that information with context (product description)?
Fast acting is subjective to the individual.
Instant results? A week? A month? Fast acting relative to what?
How are you going to objectively chart that?
You also just completely ignored the ramifications of saying something like that…
“Fast Acting” is an extremely vague and subjective term to everyone, which means that everyone is going to have a different expectation of what constitutes as being “Fast Acting”.
It opens the door to where people can say things like:
“this sub is charted high in “Fast Acting” but my results are slow… what gives?”
If someone’s subconscious mind is buried in wealth limiting beliefs, then logically speaking, Mogul ZP might not be “fast acting” for them by any means.
Whether these subs are light or heavy, is another piece of vague and useless information (even moreso on ZP).
That’s not the ideal categorization that one would use when trying to implement handholding with stack creation, because the density/recon relationship is proven to be non-linear in some cases.
It doesn’t matter how light the sub is, if the area that it covers is problematic for you… you can get very heavy recon.
Attempting to paint objective traits on extremely subjective and personalized tools is very difficult.
Stack optimization to adjust recon requires introspection.
You have to look at things such as the subliminal’s specific targeted areas compared to the individual’s current state in those targeted areas.
The process is completely subjective, introspective and personal.
What exactly do you mean by maximum benefits?
Explain to me in detail the difference between benefits and maximum benefits, give me a concrete example of both and give me a list of factors that affect an individual’s capacity to get maximum benefits.
Why would you suggest a potential replacement of a person’s subs in the future without even knowing their future goals, let alone their current goals?
That objective pathway that you think exists when it comes to these subs, doesn’t exist.
You kind of just revealed that you subconsciously believe that there is some type of objective superiority between subliminals… because you used the term “upgrade”.
To upgrade is to make improvements to something or exchange it for a better version.
There are no upgrades when it comes these subs in relation to each other.
That idea of an upgrade is very comforting and attractive because it makes you feel like you chose the best perfect superior option and it gives a sense of linear progression, all very appealing to the min/maxing mindset… but unfortunately none of it is real, lol.
All this “if you want this, then pick this one” etc, is nothing more than handholding.
Don’t be so eager to handhold people, it’s not going to help them grow,
You need context from the individual and their real life goals.