Yeah you buddy
What about it?
I said that out of challenging questions might come uncovered answers regarding what one can do in regards to shifting for achieving “model looks”
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Wdym exactly in depth example
I’ll play the devils advocate on the fixed traits here
I remember few days back Saint mentioned that a person can indeed change their eye color but it requires soo much energy and focus. I heard some people even did it here. I also believe they have height enduring scripting that could work well for some in the long run.
- I’m pretty sure your bone structure can very much change depending on what you do. Swimmers develop broader shoulders in the long run. I did push ups quite intensely and that widened my frame significantly quite fast. There is a module in the store to even make your head shape / skull better. Asps head. Also training your jaw can make your jaw bone much more defined which is something people do all the time and I saw results too! Mewing changes your facial bone structure in the long run.
There is also epigenetics and dna modulator and while I don’t know what exactly that does, if people are capable of changing their eye color, isn’t that kind of part of dna? I mean human body changes all the time. : ))))
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There isn’t really a devil’s advocate here, lol. It’s either critical thinking, or lack there of.
Can you quote it? I don’t believe that people can completely change their eye color from brown to blue with subliminals for example. I’ve never seen or heard of a credible case, and I think it’s a delusional notion - like most normal people who are grounded in reality.
Spartan, bone structure. Developing broader shoulders doesn’t mean that your bone structure changed. You can improve your posture, increase pump, and build muscle with pushups, but I highly doubt that you rapidly expanded the width of your rib cage or actually changed your bone structure. Look, I’m not saying that your shoulders didn’t look broader - I experienced the same on WANTED, I’m saying is that because of bone structures transforming? I don’t think so. There’s a difference between your frame appearing broader (muscle, posture, etc), and actually being broader (bone dimensions, wider clavicles, larger rib cage, etc).
You know that this is a scientific claim, right? Is this testable and based on scientific evidence? X-rays, CT scans, 3D facial scans? I’m skeptical of the theory (not a fact) that mewing restructures or reshapes bone in fully developed adults.
Good point, let’s have a look at this module.
“Area Physical Shifting: Head is a module covering both the health and looks development of your head through physical shifting. With APS: Head you will find your head and even your neck becoming healthier and more pain free. Pain that was recurring before such as headaches or migraines will become rarer with regular listening, and your head will gradually recover from any injuries you might have sustained. Furthermore, APS: Head will be gradually helping you become more attractive in your head area, in both general (such as clearer skin) and specific ways (such as something you specifically desire, like a more clearly defined jawline or skull shape). APS: Head will of course do this in a way that would be the most objectively attractive on you while utilizing your desires and conscious guidance, and keeping the charming features that make you unique. Of course, you will also feel guided to methods that can help you heal and refine your head area.”
There is nothing here that says it will change the bones in your skull.
It’s general healing:
- find your head and even your neck becoming healthier and more pain free
- pain that was recurring before such as headaches or migraines will become rarer
- your head will gradually recover from any injuries you might have sustained
and improving attractiveness:
- gradually helping you become more attractive in your head area, in both general (such as clearer skin) and specific ways (such as something you specifically desire, like a more clearly defined jawline or skull shape)
You can definitely change the appearance of your skull shape - that’s practical. Head posture, tongue posture, facial muscles, losing fat around the face, facial hair, hairstyles, etc.
This what the post you’re replying to is about, right. I’m saying that most of the time, the subconscious mind is going to make you more attractive through the changeable (soft) traits that are within the rules of biology. I think this because it’s common sense, what I’ve observed in other people’s experiences, and additionally my own personal experience.
Here is my own personal experience:
I used WANTED in the past which has physical shifting in it. The subliminal is designed to help you become that physically attractive type of man that women can’t get enough of. It’s the male equivalent of Seductress.
One of the objectives happens to be:
“Extensive physical shifting that is both guided by the most objectively attractive features your subconscious mind knows would look good on you, as well as your conscious guidance.”
Things that I experienced while using this subliminal were:
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My entire wardrobe changed.
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My hairstyle changed and looked way better as a result of me taking action along with my subconscious guiding me to the best style that would fit me. My hair was also thicker, fuller, and had better color - I don’t know specifically why. Maybe it was the physical shifting in my body literally doing something with my metabolism, or me subconsciously drinking more water and eating foods that are better for hair health. It could be countless things together - I wouldn’t know. It’s not my job to know. I just run the subliminal, take action, and let my subconscious mind do the rest. As a result of this new change that I implemented, I began to receive compliments from people on my hair from both men and women. This is a clear result because I received positive feedback on my physical attractiveness as a result of a change that I was inspired to make while using a subliminal designed to improve my physical attractiveness.
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My skin got clearer, and had a glow to it. It looked way better. Men started asking me for my skin care routine, which I took even more seriously. Also, just like the hair - maybe I was eating better food, digesting better, sleeping better, or drinking more water. Any of those things subconsciously or more. I think I was eating a lot of salmon on WANTED, which is a really good food for your skin.
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I felt way more attractive in my mind and body. My posture, confidence, energy, body language and presence were more magnetic. I’m confident that my micro expressions and facial expressions were more attractive, relaxed, open, and expressive.
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My personality was more attractive - the self acceptance, the embracing of my unique individuality, etc. All of those things translate in social and romantic interactions, micro-expressions, subconscious communication, etc.
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My facial features were more chiseled and masculine-looking, probably as a result of muscle tone, water retention, and/or body composition changes. I lost body-fat and gained muscle. I got compliments from friends and women on my physique. My eyes were more magnetic and relaxed when interacting with people. I was consuming a lot more calories than usual.
Did my facial bone structures wildly reconfigure as if someone did surgery on my face? No. Did I gain 5 inches of height? No.
Did I get way more attraction from women that I thought were attractive? Yes. Did I become a significantly more attractive version of myself on all levels? Yes.
Most importantly above all - was I happy with the results? Yes, lol. Very happy, in fact I rated the subliminal an 11/10.
The main point is that most of the improvements seemed to be through changeable (soft) traits.
Feel free to let me know your thoughts. I’m always interested in other people’s takes.
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Subliminals can help you express what you’re meant to be, think, act and do within the realm of realistical expectations or maybe, if you are very lucky, just above the available max results in a given spectrum.
I bet you won’t transform yourself in roaring lion or raging dragon but with enough guidance you’ll display very wild and animalistic traits. Just joking of course.
So instead of asking what’s the limit of subliminals I would ask what’s your limit?
The only answer possible is that you’ll see it when you’ll reach it.
Because no one knows what his/her potential could express and produce until he/she find the proper formula to unleash it to the max.
For example, I don’t think a beginner sprinter knows which kind of performance will accomplish at the peak of his/her career.
However it will be pretty much physically impossible, with the current knowledge, to run half the time the current world record holder.
So, if you’re meant to be the next Usain Bolt, you’ll probably become the new record holder, given you’ll do everything right along the way of your accomplishment.
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I quoted fire in the second half of that message.
I’ve met people like you and there is always a way to reason yourself into believing it’s something else. You will not change your mind no matter what I would show you. No matter what anyone would show you frankly. If you need me to send you a scientist in a white coat that will tell you this shit is real, I really couldn’t give a fuck.
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He’s not confirming that “yes, you can permanently change your eye color with the subliminals”. He’s just saying that you can try whatever you want, and no one’s stopping you. It’s nothing more than vague encouragement to experiment.
This is literally the exact same argument that every Flat Earther uses when you disagree with them, or any full-blown, delusional conspiracy theorist for that matter.
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Frame disagreement as closed-mindedness on their part, while shifting the burden away from yourself to prove anything.
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Bring forth the idea of “experts” or “scientists” in a dismissive or mocking way, as if expertise is just a costume to be worn or ignored at will.
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Shut down any further discourse as a defensive mechanism. Preferably through aggressive language, and disinterest (“I couldn’t give a fuck”) before facts or logic can be examined.
You’re right that there’s no point in discussing - because this is no longer a rational exchange. You’re dismissing all counterarguments, and doubling down on your personal belief over evidence so that you can shield yourself from accountability or proof. The funny part is that you’re accusing me of being close-minded, when you yourself have already decided there’s no evidence that could disprove your belief.
Anyways, take care.
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There’s actually a famous case in the medical literature about a 16 year old boy who was hypnotised to remove what the hypnotist originally thought were just ordinary warts, but turned out to be a manifestation of ichthyosiform erythroderma, a congenital skin condition which covers the entire body with blackish, horny skin (not unlike Delenn’s appearance in Babylon 5/Chrysalis and followup). By planting a suggestion in his mind and then allowing the body to do it’s work within a week the scales on the treated arm peeled off revealing healthy skin underneath. Then he treated other areas of his body one after another. However, at some point, once the hypnotist “knew” that the disease was supposed to be incurable and that he had performed some kind of “miracle”, he was not able to produce as effective a result, and the boy in question actually became frightened of being hypnotised. You can look up the case for yourself if you want, it was written about by one Albert Mason.
It is common to reject such stories as anecdotal, or based on an incorrect original diagnosis, or to suggest fraud / charlatanism. However, the types of things the mind seems capable of under hypnosis or other extreme conditions include: firewalking, accelerated healing, various manifestations of the “placebo effect”, seeing through solid matter, speaking about subjects you have no conscious knowledge of etc. A hypnotised subject can go back and narrate in detail an operation they had as a child, the clothes the doctor was wearing in the operating room, the texture of his skin, and so on.
Even with just these observations, never mind stories of time-space tranposition, psychic abilities or whatever, it is clear that there is a capacity which can be exercised by the inhabiting spirit which allows physical changes to occur, such as the changes in the skin of the hypnotised boy over the course of a week long faithful execution of the implanted suggestion.
The question is, how likely is this to occur in response to a subliminal alone? Can the process be helped along by taking certain actions?
I also have to point out here that a lot of people have the mistaken, rather myopic idea which lumps hypnosis and subliminals and other such methodologies as “magic” or “occult” and associates it with “black magic”. This is just as bad as the point of view which ascribes it all to fraud or psychosomatic outcomes, it is not falsifiable either making it useless for purposes of coming to any sound conclusion. A better way of looking at it is to admit ignorance and try to form a testable hypothesis on how such things might work.
I personally believe that all that hypnotism is doing, and what subliminals do on a different level, is to accomplish reorienting the way your mind/consciousness is thinking, how it is forming things on a deeper level, it changes the lower level programs in response to what is being “projected”. You can do the same kind of thing using the breath, but achieving that deep faith spoken of in Matthew 17:20 is usually difficult for ordinary people in our society as we have been trained to believe that the spirit is weak and only able to achieve very small changes. We are stuck in a Guenonian magical circle of our own making, and only we can get the jailer to let us out.
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Bro wtf has been going on on the forum lately, everyone throwing hands 
.
Anyways, @GeneticBeast there you have it, this thread is enough to show that nobody ever has the full picture.
Modern hardcore science is an exploration, we as humans are still discovering reality, how can we be certain what could become verified tomorrow.
On the other hand, woo woo territory can veer into serious delusion.
In conclusion,
- Stop looking to others to tell you what is possible, do your own research, who knows what you might discover.
- Apply inner discernment and if data is not practical, don’t waste your time.
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I think this is a take home point here. You also wrote that:
So here is the issue: trying to resolve the question of what is “true” through a social contract. It’s a common thing, and I’ve done it myself in the past. When I read about a supplement or herb I’ll look for people’s anecdotal experiences with it, or the medical literature about what compounds are in it, how it effects the body and so on.
We don’t want to be fooled by false information, and the problem has been exacerbated a lot in the recent decades especially with certain things that happened five years ago.
However, when this methodology is applied to things of the spirit, here’s what happens: we are using our pattern matching systems to try and make sense of the world. You’re appealing to your belief that someone is telling the truth - for some, an authority figure. for some, a random guy/gal on a forum who doesn’t seem to have any reason to fool us. for some, some anti-establishment type.
In order to even begin to try to recreate a result in the realm of the spirit, to be able to visualize or feel an outcome, you have to believe that it is possible, otherwise you won’t be able to see it with confidence. You have to be able to implant your suggestion at the very deep levels of your being (hence hypnosis relaxation techniques or unifying the mind with the breath, etc). If part of your mind second guesses the results you are going to get, if your being and your belief is divided, you won’t get a result. Because what you’re really doing in mind over matter is producing a specific type of state of being, changing the way you manage your energy. If you need to hear that someone else has been able to do this, that’s all well and good, but you’re going to be waiting a long time to find someone to satisfy that skepticism.
It’s amazing just how much we rely on social contracts to determine what is or isn’t possible. Half the people who believe in the outcome of the Michelson-Morely experiment believe it on faith that it happened the way that it is recorded, and that no mistakes were made in any assumptions, but they’ve never performed the experiment themselves. Same with other things like relativity or quantum theory, or modern biology/virus theory. The fact that most human beings don’t have the resources nor the desire to perform the experiments themselves yet they believe in them wholeheartedly, shows that for them science is just as much a religion to them, a faith based system, as Roman Catholicism or believing in Shiva and the gods walking the earth.
Skepticism is good for avoiding being “fooled”, but it is in itself its own kind of magical circle. And when you are dealing with mind over mattter, it becomes clear that faith is an important key to accomplishing any extraordinary result.
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If we go deep into the whole rabbit hole of possibility then it’s fair to mention the concept of infinity.
Why?
Because we need to know if the number of possibilities is finite or infinite, subconsciously speaking, in order to get the true sheer size of what is possible or not.
The concept of infinity, as far as I know, cannot be proven but only defined and debated.
However the fact that you cannot prove it, tells me that you cannot disprove it too in absolute terms.
And if you cannot disprove it, it’s better to prepared to be proven wrong.
106 Billions of human beings are estimated to live on Earth since the beginning of humanity and that’s a beyond huge number which proves a beyond comprehension variety (and that’s just for the human species, not counting other trillions of known life forms).
I guess that number gives a huge spectrum of possibilities within the human mind/biology/body and soul. A spectrum so vast that it’s impossible to document in any given variable.
Also the concept of possibility is linked to the concept of probability.
However, if you don’t know the whole documented spectrum of possibilities, the probability to get a certain thing/trait/feature is already skewed.
Yes, you can project a statistical sample on every human being known to man but it’s limited and with high probability it misses a huge unknown portions of the whole spectrum.
Yes, based on a statistical point of view there are outliers but if you projects and so multiply those outliers on a huge number, I guess you’ll get outliers of outliers which can defy common sense.
Of course the current number of subliminal users is limited but I’m thinking more about an hypothetical scenario where every human being is using them.
So, once again, I don’t think it’s fair to put a limit on what can you achieve with subliminal programming unless you miraculously happen to know your very absolute limits.
This is compelling, I’ll definitely look into this.
How much of these things are legitimate though? For example, I’m skeptical of the idea that the mind can see through solid matter while under hypnosis. Accelerated healing while under hypnosis follows the rules of biology, does it not? Are people regenerating tissue far beyond the body’s natural capacity? As for speaking about subjects that one is consciously unaware of - that could easily be a memory recall thing.
I haven’t looked into the case, so I won’t make assumptions. But in general, I believe physical changes induced by the mind still obey biological laws.
The level of physical change being suggested (healing from an incurable disease) is arguably miraculous. Since I’m not familiar with the specifics of that case or its level of verification, I can’t comment on its validity. But is that single case the only support you have for this potentiality?
You make a good point. I personally don’t subscribe to, dabble in, or believe in “magic”, “occult” or “black magic”, so I can’t comment on them.
Seems reasonable. I think I agree, lol. I believe that the subliminals influence the subconscious mind, and your subconscious mind influences your experience.
Feel free me to let me your thoughts, if you’re interested. I read your other post - it’s a brilliant read, and very thought-provoking. I intend to reply to that one later.
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Okay everyone. Settle down please.
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Oh lawd, that was a lot of flags.
I went ahead and cleaned up a whole bunch of the posts.
Everyone had their fun, now let’s be civil again. Back on topic - if it continues, I’ll close it.
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Hahaha
But didn’t you say this in your journal
My face… I honestly don’t even know what the fuck happened to my face, lol… the bones just expanded and shit lol.
It just happens… You feel pressures and sensations, might wake up one morning feeling like someone operated on your nose…
And this conversation made me confused because isn’t it one of the goals of LotS change improve facial features
I looked into the case that was recommended to me.
Here it is, for anyone who wants take a look as well:
The argument for misdiagnosis is just way too strong for me. The only way for one to know that it was 100% without a doubt CIE, is by genetic testing because it’s caused by mutated genes. This was in 1952, and DNA’s structure wasn’t even discovered until 1953. That combined with the fact that the boy’s skin responded rapidly to the hypnosis (biologically implausible for a real genetic condition) - it’s literally screaming misdiagnosis. I don’t lose bets often (I have a real life reputation for this), and in a hypothetical scenario where we today had a method to figure this out - I would be incredibly comfortable with betting a very large amount of money on this as being a case of misdiagnosis, without much hesitation. Easy money, as they say. I don’t blindly follow experts and authoritative figures, nor do I blindly reject them - I like to follow common sense. Some people have more valuable opinions than others because they have more experience and knowledge in their respective fields. For example: I am far more inclined to consider and listen to Saint Sovereign and Fire on the topic of subliminals, than I am, to say… a neurotic 13 year old YouTube subliminal maker who has mental health issues. This is why we have mentors and teachers in practically every serious discipline. I think it’s quite natural to have a preconceived attitude towards people in positions (especially of power) outside of context, as long as the end all be all entails your usage of common sense within the context.
I’m not anti-lab coat or pro-lab coat, I’m “you appear to possess experience, let’s see what you have to say with caution and a healthy degree of skepticism, and then I will come to a rational conclusion.” I’ve had many instances where my conclusion was positive and the person proved to be a competent asset towards our common goals, and many instances where the person was dangerously incompetent, despite having the respected credentials or social proof. I value common sense, using discernment, and being grounded, rather than being dogmatically attached to one side or the other through bias.
Anyways, I have no doubt that Albert Mason believed that the boy had CIE, however this quite simply, and in some sense unfortunately, fails to be equivalent to actual genetic proof. Multiple dermatologists of various hospitals diagnosed the boy with CIE through their own subjective, clinical judgement, which was standard in 1952. My thought process is “well, how reliable is this?”. It turns out that CIE is so rare (1 in 200,000 to 1 in 300,000 births) that some dermatologists don’t even encounter a case in their careers, and it shares symptoms with other skin conditions.
I do believe that the boy did improve the appearance of his skin with the help of hypnosis. However, this is still comfortably within the laws of biology (autonomic responses, reduced inflammation, circulation, immune system, reduced stress, etc), and therefore soundly aligns with my original stance on biological limitation and physical shifting with subliminals. This is not even nearly on the same level as permanently changing eye colors (from brown to blue for example), or completely reconfiguring and reshaping hard bone structures. It’s not even in the same realm of gaining 5 inches of height post-puberty. I think that scope happens to be relevant. Skin is one of the most well-documented psychosomatic organs in the human body, and skin diseases can be profoundly influenced by psychological states because of the internal systems that skin is intimately tied to. You literally have a medical field called psychodermatology. Bone is a different animal. I don’t think a change in your psychological state is going to significantly widen your clavicle, or lengthen your femur. There are no documented cases of this even in the most extreme placebo research. I mean, I would love to see it. I want to believe it - but I also don’t want to give up my common sense in exchange for wishful thinking.
These are my thoughts, lol. As always, I’m interested in other people’s opinions and thoughts, if they have any.
Yes, I did say this. This is when I was younger, and overly excited about the physical shifting. This is pretty much the anecdotal, subjective equivalent of an obese person going to the gym and losing tons of body fat, then thinking that the increased definition in his jawline as a result of less body-fat around the facial area means that his jaw got “bigger”, or that the increased prominence of his cheekbones (think boniness in the case of being gaunt, for example) means that his cheekbones “expanded.” I’ve become more mature over the years, and I’ve had to sharpened my critical thinking because it’s required if you want to flat-out be taken seriously in certain places, etc. If someone wants to climb a corporate ladder, run a company, or relate with certain type of people, then you’re almost required to elevate your thinking. You can’t be a delusional person with no common sense, and then run a successful business. You can’t be illogical, and then expect to succeed in fields that factor in the usage of tons of logic, strategy, or high-level decision making - decisions that can literally make or break your intended trajectory. So yes, this is why I’m “super-rational” - and I don’t see anything wrong with this. In my books, executive function is more important than being super, overly open-minded. The ability to think clearly and act decisively is what actually creates results. Remember, my biological take is also largely based on my own personal experience. I myself mistook changeable “soft” traits for fixed “hard” traits". I hope that clears things up, lol.
I think you can improve your facial features through changeable (soft) traits. There are so many things that influence the overall aesthetics of your face and can make you look noticeably different - that don’t include altering the underlying bone structure directly.
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Folks be like “everything is possible” yet I don’t see any proofs of someone growing 5 inches with subs.
Still, on a serious note, I do believe that height growth after having closed growth palates is possible because I saw such case. The guy I knew grew about 6 inches but he put an insane amount of effort into this: half of his day was spent on doing some stretching exercises (Method by A. Berg, I think), hypnotising himself, correcting posture, fixing flat feet, etc.
I don’t know whether the changes are due to bone growth or through “soft” traits. I know that fixing flat feet gave him about an inch of height and fixing posture too, but that’s about it