I’ve been studying this model of evolutionary consciousness for some time now. Don’t get me wrong subliminal club really seems to be excelling in the stage orange category, but not so much on the higher levels, yellow and turquoise (with the exception of the Alchemist subs). I could be wrong.
My main question: Do the SubClub subs adapted to your stage on the spiral? Or do they adapt You to other stages.
Here is a rough diagram of the model
This ought to be a joke.
what do you mean?
it is a really idosyncratic chart (Hippies above university, closer to Einstein, as well as implying that Einstein is more postmodern than everything before him (Best intellectuals are less mystical (Colors split as fractions, not binaries)). Newborn child with an undeveloped ego is […]
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[…] perpetuated by human rationality, as we mention above. Oddly the destination starts with the destruction of complexity for the hopes of achieving the cosmos (epoch), but through the “inferior” epoch (archaic/egocentric)
I concur with @user9437773791397760. The chart is so opinionated on where certain characters fall in line that it’s almost laughable.
How long have you been learning about spiral Dynamics?
I just did a brief wiki scan of it, not to be contrarian, but it has the classical western bias, negative as proof of badness and superiority of the end result of the proposed thesis. It attempts to acheive some symmetry to enhance the believability by appealing to primitive thought patterns, and thus the thoery is nothing but a meme (not knocking it).
Some important paradox’s
“Acts for minimalist living so less actually is more” is better than “Minimal impact on or control over environment”. I have some green colored boxes and plastics to sell you.
“Blending and harmonizing a strong collective of individuals” is better than “Show allegiance to elders, custom, clan”. A clan with weak leadership never left the stone age, while western civilization is counting to nuclear annihilation, so much for progress of the collective.
“Self is part of larger, conscious, spiritual whole that also serves self” is better than “Preserve sacred places, objects, rituals”. Kinda funny this one, ancient mythology has more alignment to the self and whole, than some solipsistic statement of progress towards spirituality of the self, and never actually attaining said goal.
“Focus on the good of all living entities as integrated systems”, is better than “Lives “off the land” much as other animals”. I would imagine if the apex of human evolution actually cherished this “Expanded use of human brain/mind tools and competencies” than one would not worry about being compared to an animal, which all things considered, is more in touch with higher concepts than 99% of […]. Ever wonder why the “#1” nation (USA), “Preserve sacred places, objects, rituals”, occult symbols (Pyramids, eagles, greek mythology, newborn constitution), baby USA hasn’t got much else to work with (mirror of western society).
The odd thing here is humans will never achieve what the rest of the world has effortlessly done, a mere accident allows one to see that any idea no matter how genius, will always work when one is forever detached from consequence. I would like someone to prove me wrong, videotape a human signaling his vitality and health to leopards and cheetahs to ignore him (Impossible for humans to communicate their essential intellect to other species).
Nice topic.
Hmm…I’m thinking.
Remember that the ongoing principle of Spiral Dynamics is: Transcend and Include
Stages further along in the spiral actually still contain the earlier stages.
Also, a point that people miss sometimes is that subsequent stages are not ‘superior’, they are more complex and sophisticated. In some cases, the perfect tool for the job could be an earlier tool.
I don’t think there’s any easy or direct relationship between a given subliminal and a particular stage in the spiral.
The subliminals are about Content. The stages are about Context.
You see what I mean?
You can give a knife to someone at any point along the spiral. They’ll all find some way to use it.
The knife is the content. That’s the subliminal.
This analogy is not perfect. Many subliminals contain aspects that are a bit more ‘meta’. But even those parts are protean, shifting, and adaptive to the mind of the particular listener.
Even Alchemist is no exception.
When I was 17, I had an altered state experience. I’d gone through an experience of physical privation and then had been driven in a car through heat and sunlight for about 3 hours, and then when I got to my destination, I was unable to sleep and prayed for a long time. Suddenly there was a twing and I was out of my body. Other stuff happened, blah blah. Anyway. At that time, the explanation that came to me for that experience was the result of my religious education and socialization. By 10 years later, the exact same experience had taken on a very different significance to me, and I used very different concepts and frameworks to make sense of it. Now it’s 30 years later, and my way of understanding it has shifted even more.
So, even the kinds of experiences associated with Alchemist can be bound to and contextualized by different stages of development.
But it’s true that intentionally participating in transformation, growth, and metamorphic processes will probably be a kind of ontological ‘lubricant’ that makes it somewhat easier for someone to experience more changes.
Interesting topic. Thanks.
Great analogy. I learn best through those.
And since we can’t see the scripts for certain, I think SubClub makes them with the intent that the listener stay at their current stage and excel in that (until the living condition reach their limit). But there are exceptions, for example “Kahn” or any alpha male subliminal is focused on material things, could be focused on the warm colors (specifically orange). I don’t see much relating to the cool colors aside from alchemist things.
I’ve came up with 3 categories that SubClub makes in relation to SD:
subs that are designed for a specific stage (PSIT could be related to Orange)
subs that are general enough to apply to all stages (ex: Beyond Limitless Ultima (good for any type of learning))
Or subs that are completely independent of SD (ex: elixir or Dreams)
This is me just brain storming and that last bullet might not even be a thing. could just be a part of bullet point 2
To address the value comparison above
it’s not hierarchical
Its a holorchy or a holon module-the part is included in the whole. And every part gives rise to the whole. higher is not better-it’s more inclusive to the large picture. Value discernment on inherent true are not really made until Turquoise-and truth is always inclusive of what is not true.
Development inherently starts where it starts and goes where it goes.
An adult is not better than a child. It has developed aspects the child has not.
A child has value and capacities an adult loses, and would benefit from going back to reintegrate
into their being.
What were looking at there is three things with subs is similar-are we developing, going back to include, or healing what is not online in an unhealthy way.
Which colors that your current development is progressed past but are off line-and could benefit from being online and healthy. For example many millennial and generations after have a cultural narrative that was built off a rebellion against the unhealthy qualities of orange-money for moneys sake, business over humanity etc so some in these generations often lack having orange online. So they have a healthy green and unhealthy orange-Emperor would or EOG would suit this etc.
Which colors are online but unhealthy -maybe someone is developed enough to be in yellow but one shadow of yellow is mired in complex analysis, building theories, understandings with no application/ castles in the air, non-pragmatic idealism, everything is criticized and made more complex rather than doing what needs to be done, can lose connection with people. -So someone in this case would be served by getting their yellow healthy. So a mixture of execution, cohesion and organizing principles would be of benefit- Executive, Alchemist, Emperor etc.
Developing qualities that are not online-
maaaybeee the only think not online for for most here (were all pretty developed here it seems 
) is yellow and above
maaaaybbeeee if some is less socially current/woke -green might not be online as well, or for an extremely traditional person-orange might not be online at all, that they could be industrious or self-determined beyond a family/community hierarchy etc. So the only thing I really see in raising to the next level that’s not there yet is DR, Alchemist, or Khan.
For healing subs
A lot of people are proficient at green since we live in a post modern world, it’s part of the zeitgeist/cultural narrative-everyone has their truth, we need to dispense with hierarchy and establish equality etc… The shaow of post-modernism is of course narcissism and nihilism, no inherent meaning.
Any healing sub could address this, as one heals a perspective beyond their own would be a natural occurrence- note @James’s desire to have what he says land effectively and be a contribution-not because ‘he cares what we think or wants approval’-but because there is an objectivity and maturity in communicating in a way that forwards the whole that matters more as he grows. (@JCast-this is what I see-let me know if I got it wrong
@Malkuth really well said-
Because the design of these subs is in the inquiry, from my understanding, subs can break into causing context/paradigm shifts. I am rich affirmation -attempts to create new beliefs/content vs. how am I becoming someone who understand what it takes to generate unlimited wealth- ? Starts to shift the context since your looking at a meta process of becoming. And any time a process moves back and forth and simultaneously coexists as a fluid ‘happening/becoming’ and is nomanalized as a concrete identity shift the ground is ripe for a complete paradigm/perception/ context shifts.
nothing authoritative here, just my sense of it.
Personally, I don’t think that there is this intent in the subliminals. Rather, I think that that intention is within most listeners. That intention is in most people, in general. And it’s pretty reasonable.
I think that this is not fundamentally a Subliminals question. It’s more of a developmental question.
Put explicitly, we could phrase it like this: ‘What factors seem to drive and support the movement of individuals and groups through various developmental trajectories?’
Is a butterfly somehow ‘better’ than a caterpillar? Well, that depends on the criteria of evaluation. If our criterion is Survival Capacity, then we’d have to say ‘Not really’. Because there lots of situations where a caterpillar is more likely to survive than a butterfly. On the other hand, if we’re using survival capacity as our criterion, we’d also have to conclude that cockroaches are vastly superior to homo sapiens.
But forget all of that, the question is, ‘In that case, what factors drive a caterpillar to develop into a butterfly?’. We’ll come up with answers like Biological/Genetic Imperative (which is based on proven and tested survival strategies of previous generations); Environmental Markers and Cues (seasonal temperature changes, for example); Collective Pressure (e.g., conformity with the group’s ‘center of gravity’); and blah blah blah.
Similar factors and many others will also come up when we look at the developmental trajectories of human individuals and collectives, and their cultural and social forms.
Hmm…by itself though, I don’t think a subliminal is going to be that deciding factor.
A subliminal is like a question or a challenge or a goad posed to the mind; to the being. The mind is going to come up with the best possible answers to satisfy that question, fulfill that challenge, or remove that goad.
Will that process usually result in a leap to an entirely different configuration of perceptions (i.e., to a stage-based evolution)? Probably only if the mind in question was tending in that direction anyway.
A stage-change is a paradigm shift. It doesn’t primarily ‘solve problems’, rather, it redefines the entire question. This does inevitably end up solving problems along the way; but it also ends up creating whole new categories of problems.
The one class of Subliminal that might seem to fly in the face of my point is the Healing subliminal. Reading the description of Dragon Reborn, for example, it’s hard to say that it does not facilitate evolution.
But even with these programs, I don’t think it’s that they drive us to evolve. I think, rather, that it’s probably more accurate to say that they liberate the evolutionary movement that is already trying to happen in the individual.
We are constantly ‘trying’ to develop and grow. This growth gets blocked, stunted, and calcified by traumas and fixations along the way. Resolution or healing of such blocks is naturally accompanied by seeming surges of momentum, energy, and power.
Perhaps, for healthy beings, periodic evolutionary leaps may actually be the default state.
uhh…saw that I kind of ‘rediscovered’ some of the points you already made, @Azriel. haha my bad.
…and some of the points I made were rediscoveries of your earlier post,
were just doing our own spiral dynamics 
