Self Centered Enjoyment: An Inherently Flawed Premise?

Questions and Comments
#1

I’m curious to know if the foundation of these subliminal products are rooted in the concept that, fulfilling one’s personal and self-fulfilling desires is the highest and most worthwhile achievement one can strive for. The reason I bring this up is because this concept provides a very weak foundation.

I imagine that @Fire and @SaintSovereign gain much happiness and fulfillment by running the Subliminal Club business as well as fostering and growing the community. I would argue that they gain more fulfillment from this endeavor (which is based on providing valuable products and services to others), compared to other endeavors that are purely self-fulfilling. A business grows best when the business strives to add value to their services. If you imagined your own personality as a business, what kind of business would you want to be? One that purely focuses on profit and gain? Or one that continually innovates to find ways to add value to your services, and continually strives to better serve your customers.

In observing famous personalities (I won’t be specific here), we can observe that a life purely in pursuit of personal enjoyment does not often end gloriously. People with more wealth, romantic partners, and pleasures of this world than we could ever imagine have committed suicide (willingly or unwillingly) or ended up ruining their lives and the lives of others. In contrast, we find those personalities who lead a life rooted in service to others, and we see that whether they are rich or poor, they radiate a deep inner joy that no circumstance can seem to shake.

My point here is that if we actually want to enjoy, it’s better to recognize sooner rather than later that we will gain more enjoyment if we focus on providing service to others. Now what would this practically look like in a sentence or two? Let’s say you want a romantic partner and you crave and desire this satisfaction. If you listen to a subliminal program that is built on the premise that fulfilling this desire for yourself in this self-fulfilling way is going to make you happy, then it’s not giving you the best value. It would be more truthful and beneficial to somehow encode the foundational understanding that bringing satisfaction to others is going to give you twice the fulfillment, because think about it, you get the satisfaction of seeing another person benefit as well as your own personal benefit. It’s a double win!

This is definitely a subtle distinction and might be considered splitting hairs, but I think it’s the kind of thing that is worth examining in terms of the careful word selection and intention of these programs. Especially since the subconscious mind is very nuanced.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

2 Likes
#2
2 Likes
#3

The only scenario in which I would agree that it is bad is when you achieve something by hurting/stealing from someone.

2 Likes
#4

Thanks @anon3072973. The hurting/stealing is besides the point. I’m more so trying to point out that we should be trying to get as close to a logical and accurate premise as possible. A simple example is: I want a box of chocolate. Yum. Now, if you were to tell me that the by employing that box of chocolate in my own personal satisfaction, I could achieve the highest enjoyment possible, I would argue that that is not accurate.

Image someone alone having an entire box of chocolates to themselves. For how long will that be enjoyable? 'Til they get sick from overeating? Even if they don’t overeat, they can only enjoy it to a certain capacity. Now image someone with the mindset of selfless service to a beloved partner, who is imagining just how much his/her beloved will enjoy this. Now this person’s enjoyment is compounded by the enjoyment of another, and they will very likely get to personally enjoy the chocolate themselves as well, but even without that they would have significantly increased their enjoyment compared to the person hoarding it for themselves.

Now maybe someone is not at that level of personal development yet, where they don’t think that service to others is more enjoyable, they think having it all for themselves holds the max potential for enjoyment. Even in that circumstance, it doesn’t negate that from an objective point of view, if they were to be elevated to that level of personal development, that this would increase their potential enjoyment.

The reason I say that this is objective is because 1+1 equals 2 and 2 is greater than 1. It means that being of value to others through service always allows the opportunity to increase the enjoyment that we experience. And even a small nudge in that direction, even if its hidden in the foundation makes a huge difference in the potential outcome of the thing.

1 Like
#5
1 Like
#6
1 Like
#7

I actually had a dream when I was young in which there was everything made out of chocolate…
Needless to say I never liked chocolate the way I did before after that dream.

Gentlemen, I think we are mixing something up here. What swedge talks about seems to be about sharing and thus making the experience better for everyone rather than having it all for yourself and being lonely.
Amash seems to interpret it the way that you should consider treating yourself with respect first.
I agree with both of you and I think that is the power of subliminals: To change your inner self in a much faster way and enrich it, so that you actually have something to share.
After all, someone who has/is 0 can only share 0.

3 Likes
#8

+10000000000

Make yourself strong first.

That’s why when there is a problem in an airplane, you put your oxygen mask first, then you help others. You don’t rush to help others then die after a few minutes because you sacrificed yourself.

5 Likes
#9

Anyways, I don’t disagree with OP. I just think that is an unbalanced view.

Shinzen Young talked about the paradoxical nature of the path to enlightenment. That you need both to selfishly work on yourself, for example by meditating alone which is very selfish; and being of service to other people, helping them with things.

But according to him the highest level is effortless service. Which is when you work on yourself and help others so much that you become completely pure. And when you are completely pure, you make everyone around you feel better just by your presence. Because what is pure purifies.

What do you think of this @swedge?

Also, the videos I shared, especially the last one, are important. Do check them out.

2 Likes
#10

I agree and I also think that there definitely needs to be a distinction between doing something out of pure selflessness and doing something for others to not be selfish.
This is something I have thought about a lot, especially in terms of religion because most religions teach you: Do this for others or you will burn in hell, do that or else… And I think: It shouldnt be my motivation to not burn in hell in order to help others…
I think you know when you are there. The paradox is, that you truly get more the more you give, in a very interesting way, but you shouldnt force it upon you. You know when you are ready.

2 Likes
#11

It all depends on your own base and where you’re serving from:

  1. Giving to others/society because you were told it’s the only way others will love you or

  2. Giving to others because you’re more than content and are full within to share consciously and conscientiously.

2 can only happen when you serve yourself first. I’ve been doing 1. for the past 10 years and getting fuck all back, so now it’s time to be utterly selfish. Fill your own cup first, let others get the extra run off.

5 Likes
#12

But if you’re providing service to others in an effort to boost your own fulfillment isn’t that the same thing just a different way of going about it? This goes back to the idea of virtue and if one can be virtuous without being inherently selfish. I never much cared for these philosophical topics because they lack any practical application.

Also for what it’s worth, I believe mbti has a major influence on people’s philosophical outlook. What you’ve written would be highly favored by Extroverted Feeling types. One thing I’ve come to understand is people are different from each other. We should respect those differences, not try to create uniformity in an effort to bring out harmony because ironically it does the opposite.

3 Likes
#13

I think what I disliked is a very similar message is between the lines of this topic, the first post.

It’s “not being selfless is bad. If you do it, you are wrong, and bad.”

I agree. I did this for 80% of my life, and during that time, the more I gave, the more I had nothing left for myself. Because I didn’t focus myself first to have an abundance of things to give.

I thought about this as well and I agree 100%.

It is selfish to serve others, because you do it to feel good.

+1

2 Likes
#14

No. We don’t push any agenda in our products. The only thing we’re interested is bringing out the best YOU, however YOU define it.

6 Likes
#15

That’s really great, and I imagine quite complex to craft statements in such a way. That being said, this means it will take a concerted effort on the part of the listener to discover what is really best for him/herself. This makes a lot of sense to me now, these subs are just tools. A hammer also doesn’t push an agenda, but it can be used to build a warm cozy house or commit murder, depending on whose hand it’s in.

#16

This also makes a lot of sense to me now too.

Looking back over my experience here, I can see that each sub caused a lot of self examination as well as re-examination of aspects in my life relating to that sub.

Causing me to automatically define exactly what I want and don’t want. And also create very hard and fast boundaries in that area.

Interesting indeed.

2 Likes
#17

I don’t know if service to self can be classified the highest level, I think you’d gotta be at the highest level to know for sure. But I do know this. Many people are not selfish enough. Many people needlessly sacrifice themselves.

You could also argue service to others is service to self.
I don’t mean in the spiritual way, I personally have not had a oneness experience and would rather not live my life based on spiritual beliefs. I’m open to the idea we’re all one but until I experience it it’s only a hypothesis.

I mean in the sense that service to others does bring personal reward.
First to most people, myself included, helping others feels good. Yes, you’re helping others. But you’re doing it because it feels good. Nothing wrong with that of course. We tend to not like to help people if it doesn’t feel good. EX: ungrateful people treating you like a servant, just expecting you to help them. The premise is the same- helping people. But if it feels bad we usually don’t help them unless we have a reason higher than ourselves to do so. Or if it leads to some sort of long term gratification.

A successful business must be service to others but by optimizing for your customers you get more money, status and rewards. There is still personal incentive.

“My point here is that if we actually want to enjoy, it’s better to recognize sooner rather than later that we will gain more enjoyment if we focus on providing service to others.”

I agree somewhat but I tend to stay away from telling people what leads to more enjoyment and does not. In most cases helping others leads to more enjoyment, but in the examples given of celebrities offing themselves, many of them were also in service to others quite greatly. Charities, creating projects and organizations to help people in need, etc. Also many got gratification from just seeing people smile from their work and receiving letters that their influence helped save their life.

Yet they still offed themselves.

It’s a good thing to discuss but I think people should follow their own beliefs of how they want to live their life. If someone envisions being an “emperor” with loads of women constantly wanting to **** him, loads of wealth, a huge mansion with maids that also want to constantly **** him, and be known as someone powerful and amazing in the world… well hey, let them pursue that kind of gratification.

If they go through that and then realize “huh, this isn’t quite what I was expecting” then they might consider a new path as so commonly happens. Some walk that road and due to their skill of acquiring abundance they have no issues whatsoever drowning themselves in bodily and ego pleasures until death.

Having wealth and women is one paradigm, and I think every human being should experience that paradigm. I think growth is more like a staircase. Many people become “spiritual” after seeking material happiness and then realizing the infinite cannot be found in the finite. Some start sooner than that.

However someone’s journey goes, I think we all have the capacity to change along the way. if someone’s using “khan” say, and gets their success through their hard work, enjoys it, but then wants a paradigm higher than “khan”, then they naturally drop the paradigm and work towards a new one.

That’s how I see it anyway.

3 Likes
#18

Very wise words @UltrasonicBorks, very wise words indeed.

1 Like