So, I’m posting this here as I think it’s an important discussion. I genuinely don’t understand something, or I understand it and don’t like it, and really need to express this fully. It’s constructive criticism, I hope, nothing scathing. But there’s a lot of conversation constantly about differentiating subliminals and how to do so.
“GuYS WhY DonT YOu JuST ReaD tHe SalES PaGE to FiGurE oUT the DiffeRENce betwEEN SubLIMinaLS.”
And then, there’s the situation of Love Bomb and Love Bomb For Humanity which makes me lose trust in that entirely.
What the actual heck happened here?
Love Bomb is better for healing a lack of self love than LBFH. Love Bomb is more internal, and LBFH is more “external.”
Can we refer to the sales pages here?
First of all, even the words Self-Love and Aura are at odds. Self-Love is the definition of “internal” vocabulary.
That Love Bomb For Humanity has ONE purpose, to instill an incredible sense of self-love within every fiber of your being (and then energetically radiate that love out to everyone you encounter is the secondary attribute, which sounds more like two purposes.)
It then goes on in more detail to describe how LBFH will transform you into a resevoir of positivity, hope, love, with the option (you can then choose…) to share that love with others. If there’s the option to accept that, there’s the option to decline that, implying LBFH is the fully internal subliminal.
A whole paragraph is dedicated specifically to the healing technology inside of LBFH. Specifically around “matters of the heart when someone hurts you.” No wonder @Prioritas thought it’d be better for a break up.
I won’t quote the whole sales page but I find very limited mention of the LBFH external-aura AT ALL and when I do it is universally preceded by “Fill yourself with self love, then radiate it outwards” and the next idea is about healing and the power of TRUE SELF LOVE.
The first objectives of LBFH are both internally focused.
Actually, of the 11 objectives in LBFH, 8 of them directly mention healing, internal work, 3 mention external results, and one of those three are about the “protection aura” which seems like a side-function of LBFH, not the main point of conversation.
Some light healing, but much slower than a traditional healing title
More dependent on your inner growth
Of the 7 objectives listed, 4 are regarding external results (more than 50%).
How were we supposed to have determined this?
In what world?
What other subliminals do we have a complete and utter misunderstanding of?
I don’t really trust either subliminal now and don’t feel comfortable running either one if I don’t know what they do.
I’m considering the possibility that @Fire wasn’t actually @fire in that support ticket, and someone is pretending to be him, and that person made a mistake. Probably not the case here but the facts just literally don’t add up unless I consider that as a possibility.
There’s a LOT of conversation on this forum about differentiating between subs and it’s considered “obvious” by @answergroup if we just read the descriptions.
Well, I read LBFH in detail, and broke down all the reasons why I interpreted LBFH as a healing subliminal not an aura subliminal. Please use this as a case study for future sales page copywriting to help make these differentiations clear. Comments from all are welcome.
i mean i didn’t mean it to be passive aggressive. I’m genuinely annoyed as hell and not trying to hide that. There’s more ways to communicate than passive, passive-aggressive, and aggressive. There’s also just being direct. I like to think I toe that line pretty effectively.
And i want this to be constructive criticism not a snarling takedown. Both can co-exist peacefully. I think expressing that frustration is important because it is a part of what i’m trying to communicate. Not just the facts. But the personal perspective I have trying to relate to all this.
As for LBFH, I don’t see a sales page update despite, and more importantly, I think there’s a lack of constructive communication around this issue generally speaking, so there’s not awareness that it’s an issue in all the reasons why.
There are the people screaming and complaining about stark, but that’s the only discussion on this, and again, that’s not constructive criticism where all they do is scream their points, barely back it up, make a bunch of BS statements that aren’t true, and then get called out by S&F for being completely ridiculous.
What I’m doing here is quoting the sales page to give the exact reasons why I came to the conclusion that i came to regarding internal/external, and when the team up top asks “how do we make it really clear how to differentiate products on the sales page?” this hopefully is helpful and has the exact reasons why
To be honest I also thought LB is to create an aura externally and LBfH fills you with love and by solving that issue of self love projecting it later to the outside.
And since not all titles are easily separated and we cannot look into the script we have to trust the written descriptions with the hope that these are accurate.
This is the exact thing i meant with my suggestion on the love bomb thread.
My theory is that the love bomb sales page is still from when LB was nothing more than libertine but with the word love replacing attraction.
When love bomb got updated to ZP every sub got rescripted. saint started making posts about how love bomb ‘‘may contain the secret to fast manifestation’’ and a couple of other things that to me imply the scripting has than been significantly updated from its original purpose. On ZP was also where i got my amazing love bomb healing results.
My theory is that love bomb may have gotten some big changes in the transfer from Qv2 to ZP, but that the sales page has yet managed to reflect this.
I could be completely wrong here but this is what i think may have happened.
In my experience Lovebomb is really for myself to fill me up and have in the end a aura of Love
But Lovebomb for Humanity is realy digging deep into your heart and you need to really love yourself through all your pains and blockages until you reach the point where you love yourself and then comes the second part in witch you just feel love for others because you know they don’t have any source of it in themselves. On Lovebomb for Humanity I startet to talk with people knowing my aura cleanse them or give them the experience that there is a human being with unconditional love for them. I saw people here in Switzerland ( it’s a cold Land, nearly everyone has a cold or non functioning heart) light up and start throwing love in my direction only to be super perplexed why they act like that with me. Even the coldest people told me they love me then cut the contact imeadiatly.
On Lovebomb I am the love
On Lovebomb for Humanity I spread love after going through trials
Love Bomb is an aura, an attractant with love rather than lust. Libertine but with the comfort of love. Imagine a radiating love sphere around that sends that energy about it, affects those within its radius, and then returning to the source.
LbfH, on the other hand, takes that radiation and infects the targets with love, that love is then activated in them, and keeps infecting others. It does go back to its source, but the difference is that you’re not having that energy pumped out and recycled back to you only, it keeps bouncing. It changes the people around you and they behave like someone who is experiencing self love and having a fun time, relaxed, laughing and playful.
On some level they know that you are the source. Everyone has a mind, everyone can put one with one and associate that with you, and you’d get the goodies. Usually, there is no thinking of the “goodies”
Definitely both have self love, LbFH took it further for inwards for me. It did touch on the same topics with LB, but this one explores it in other areas as well. Thus it’s more internal. But in either case, you are experiencing and exploring love on those two titles, and would naturally express them outwards. What you hold within, pushed without.
I think it would be useful seeing what the initial ticket said in it. For example.
I got my heart broken and need to feel better about myself = love bomb
I got my heart broken, I’m angry, I don’t know if I can trust anyone after this = LBFH
It’s nuanced but it’s clear where the focus is. That level of nuance going into a sales page is never gonna be there. But it’s really up to the individual to make an informed decision what would work best for them. Support and anyone else can do their best, but I think there’s a cutoff point where it gets too personal and nuanced to give a straight answer.
Um, sirs – please read the following, taking particular note of the bolded text.
The short copy for Love Bomb for Humanity (from the VERY TOP OF THE PAGE):
A Love Bomb For Humanity attempts to achieve one mission: To instill an incredible sense of self-love within every fiber of your being, and then energetically radiate that love out to everyone you encounter. It will transform you into a reservoir of positivity, hope and universal love, which you can then choose to share with others simply by being around them. Love Bomb For Humanity’s potent aura also encourages those affected by it — if they consent — to spread love and positivity wherever they go. In other words, with A Love Bomb For Humanity, you can affect great change in the world simply by going out and being around people with a positive attitude.
The short copy for Love Bomb:
Love Bomb is what happens when you fill your whole being with only one purpose, one energy, one meaning, one law… Love. Those who tested Love Bomb came back with incredibly interesting results. They were perceived as strong and respectable. People loved them so much that they ended up getting gifts, praise and kindness wherever they went. Some of our testers, in fact, ended up utilizing the profound energy of Love Bomb for the purposes of seduction! And yet others used it as a way to relax their inner worlds – through the power of the energy of love, they experienced a washing away of all stress and tension, allowing them to enjoy the moment as is. Love Bomb is completely focused on one purpose, but how and for what you use it is completely up to you.
… ya’ll really telling me that you cannot see the difference between these two titles and the use cases for both? Do I really need to stop working on the HYPEDADDY drop to answer something that is so dreadfully obvious by the copy at the literal top of the page?
Both generate an aura of intense self-love and both use the same / similar aura scripting. But in the description of LBFH, it clearly states that the aura is designed to spread to others, who will then start projecting the aura itself:
It will transform you into a reservoir of positivity, hope and universal love, which you can then choose to share with others simply by being around them. Love Bomb For Humanity’s potent aura also encourages those affected by it — if they consent — to spread love and positivity wherever they go.
Love Bomb’s aura is open ended, meaning you can do what you want with it, generally depending on the rest of your stack. You run Mogul for advancement at work, toss Love Bomb in to give it a “loving” feeling. Run Love Bomb with a seduction stack to add a “love” element into it, etc. Right there, in the short copy:
Love Bomb is completely focused on one purpose, but how and for what you use it is completely up to you.
Now…
First things first:
I believe we have made it quite clear that the entire purpose of the NFTW season, which may run for quite some time, was to update all older titles, all older copy, all older boxes and to put all older titles under sub brand names (like updating Power Can Corrupt to Emperor: The Will to Power) so people can easily understand things.
So, if any of the OG / older titles have confusing or overlapping copy – for now, ya’ll can just chill tf out over that and allow us to do our thing. We are in uncharted territory – no one else has done what we have, so this is going to be an iterative process and that’s just the nature of this thing. You can clearly look at the Love Bomb copy and see that it’s the very old style copy versus the newer narrative style of LBFH. In fact, it was around LBFH that we began to experiment with it. And again, as we have already said – NFTW is our “love song” to our earliest customers, who have been waiting to see their OG titles get a complete makeover.
So… no shit that the Love Bomb page is “lacking,” as someone said above.
You all don’t see the new sexy ass boxes and in-depth narrative copy for the updated NFTW titles? Primal Seduction and Primal taking drastically different paths? Rebirth being reborn as PHOENIX? Did anyone say that Love Bomb wasn’t set to be included in those updates? ALL titles means ALL titles. Love Bomb will get updated and then the copy will be more in-depth.
But that’s irrelevant, because even with old copy, the differences are still apparent, just as I explained in the beginning.
As for this “debate” between “internal” vs. “external,” here’s the answer: That question means absolutely nothing because ALL subliminal audio titles are internal, with the external effect arising from the change in the self.
One isn’t “more internal” or “more external” than the other. It’s about the goals of the title, and this is clear – both generate a deep sense of self-love (of which the side effect is clearly healing), but one is designed to specifically project it outward for the purposes of getting it to spread. OG Love Bomb, as the short copy CLEARLY SAYS, can be used as you please.
This is why the “internal” vs. “external” thing makes no sense. The words themselves are vague until defined by the person asking them. @Prioritas didn’t ask which one was more “internal” vs. “external.” He asked about a “heartbreak stack,” leading to @Fire to clearly accurately cite the difference between the two, AS CLEARLY STATED in the short copy of both that:
“Fire responded saying Love Bomb is better for healing a lack of self love than LBFH, as the ultimate goal of LBFH is to give/spread love outwards once your cup is full. While Love Bomb is more about accumulating love.”
By all means, show me where this is contradicted in the copy of Love Bomb For Humanity vs. Love Bomb. In fact, he literally just summarized the differences clearly laid out in the short copy.
The terms themselves are vague and don’t have a concrete definition. What exactly do you mean by “which is more external?” They are both internal by generating a deep sense of self love and they are both external in that the aura is going to irradiate outward. One just does it differently and has a different purpose.
I am actually quite shocked that I have to explain this one. There’s quite a few titles and modules that overlap so much that I understand the confusion. But Love Bomb vs Love Bomb for Humanity? Nah.
Now, we’re awfully tired, but incredibly excited. But we are pressed for time. And when I come back to this thread, I don’t want to see anyone going off the rails, alpha beating their chest, or nitpicking the answer and ignoring the nuance of the situation and response.
Yes man. Yes. I am trying to make that abudantly clear. I can not see the difference between these titles and the use cases for both. It’s a massive point of confusion. Nobody knew.
You can choose to stop what you’re doing to respond to this now, or, you can choose to put this onto a roadmap and solve it at a date where it’s not conflicting with your higher priority tasks. That’s entirely up to you. I won’t feel guilty if the drop is pushed back because of this because it is completely and entirely outside of my control nor should I have the ability to influence your day to that level. Feedback is not a threat nor does it force you to immediately take action, and unless you guys give a clear mechanism of how you want feedback given, I’ll give feedback in a way that’s natural for me without worrying about your whole day being derailed as a result of it. I know you can prioritize.
All I’ll say is this; if you can see where I’m coming from here I think you’ll see where a lot of my personal confusion comes from, and, it’s up to you to choose whether you choose to use me as a one-off case or as a representative of the audience from there. I’m here to share, not politick.
You seem confused as to why we’re confused. Or just annoyed. I don’t know. But I broke down the reasons why I thought so, I took time to make that post thoughtful and clear, and that’s all I can really do for you regarding this topic. I’d just ask that you read it with an open mind not an instant reaction. Reject it, after reading it, I don’t really care. But you’re asking me to show you contradictions, I just made a post doing so, but I guess I’ll do so again.
I have always agreed with you that most subs are differentiatable clearly through the sales page.
On Love Bomb and Love Bomb for humanity, I can not.
Forget about Love Bomb entirely because I’m sure you will update it soon.
I can not understand where Love Bomb For Humanity emphasizes outward expression of an aura above and beyond an inner intention of healing. Now that you’ve explained it, I can. My point is that even diving DEEP into the love bomb for humanity page, I can not. And even by being an incredibly active forum member for something like three years now, I can not differentiate between the two. I understand a lot better after your post and the posts of others like @Phoermes who also explained it well. But, this isn’t even about whether or not I understand. This is about the sales pages.
You’re making it sound like I haven’t read this. Dude I read it, multiple times, before making this post, because I wanted to see if I just hadn’t read it properly.
I don’t think my reading is the problem. All I did was quote the sales page to show how I came to my conclusions.
I’m not making up theories about what internal/external love/hate etc etc mean. Just. Quoting. Sales Page. And you seem to be quoting the exact same section that I am showing how it “CLEARLY” explains your point and it’s outrageous that I don’t understand the nuance, after I had already quoted it discussing how confusing it is, so we’re running the risk of ending up in circular arguments (it OBVIOUSLY says this… nooooooo, it OBVIOUSLY says this…) which reminds me too much of Protestants and Catholics arguing over bible interpretations so I don’t want to touch that with a ten foot pole.
But my feedback is that I have a very very very strong reading comprehension, a level of understanding of writing that may not be fully comparable to your own with the MFA you have, but high enough to engage in writing and editing others’ work as a profession if I choose, and I do not understand the difference.
You may actually be burdened by your own level of writing mastery, and intricate nuanced comprehension. If I can’t understand this, I don’t see how you can get upset that international customers can’t understand it. Or why your inboxes are blowing up about X vs Y topics.
The internal/external frame is nuanced, but not garbage. It’s not a “debate” at all but in layman’s terms, it’s safe to say that Dragon Reborn and Phoenix are maybe 90% internal. Libertine is maybe 90% external. Just for the purposes of discussion. We need to be able to discuss these subliminals with some sort of terms. Can we agree on that, more or less? If so, can we at least use that as a starting point to say everything else falls on a spectrum of internal/external with a mix of both, with those being an example of the extreme ends?
These are the best points. The answer was in response to the context of heartbreak. In that case, it’s better to fill your self with love than to focus on expressing that love outwards.
My only addition to that would be even the person who had asked the question, and received the answer, doesn’t deeeeeply understand the nuance and he thought that it was a blanket statement that Love Bomb was more internal and LBFH is more external. I would argue that’s because he was primed to believe so due to the sales copy, which subclub team encourages us to treat as the definitive source of info on sub variation.
There is one contradiction ^ How are we supposed to understand that Love Bomb is better for the goal of filling yourself with Self-Love if Love Bomb For Humanity “has the most self-love scripting?” (and LB is "completely aura based and requires a level of inner growth to get results with it.)
How is prioritas supposed to understand that LB is better for heartbreak when
And sure… this is another example of the “expression of that love” mentioned after intimate details about the healing components of LBFH, but again, it’s the same formula. The “One Mission” LBFH seems to try to achieve is healing, and the sales page seems to try and persuade us that that healing will be beneficial because of how it’ll radiate outwards. It’s not even described as a separate feature in great detail - it literally just sounds like the healing will be noticeable (because how could it not be)
I tried to highlight others in the post.
I disagree.
Here's my reason why
I’m going to criticize this writing, then, since you want me to show you where in the sales page is causing confusion, and I don’t want to use LB as that’s old copy.
Given the entirety of the LBFH sales page taken as a whole, where people don’t have an understanding of the title before reading it, and it mentions healing dozens of times, and makes only seldom mentions to the outward expression of love, and even that, only after a direct mention of inner-work, I think it’s completely fair to say that this short blurb will be taken to mean that the “one mission” is inner work, not expression outwards, given the fact that the inner work is mentioned first and then the outwards expression is mentioned as a by-product/result of that “One Mission”
I/ think this part should be written as follows.
"LBFH attempts to achieve one mission: To energetically radiate all the self-love it generates outwards, to everyone you encounter. To do that, LBFH instills an incredible sense of self-love within every fiber of your being."
That is one point of confusion.
Here’s another point of confusion.
Stating Love Bomb only has “one purpose” and then not stating that purpose and then wondering why it’s confusing is a recipe for disaster. Furthermore, stating it only has one purpose, and then stating it’s almost completely an aura based sub, is going to make it very “clear” what that one purpose is… An aura meant to be outwardly expressed for the purpose of effecting others.
And since it’s for ONE purpose, and we believe that purpose to be an AURA, we are going to be confused at any comments that it’s for healing, and we’ll even maybe interpret the “healing” under the umbrella belief that it’s only an aura sub, since it’s “one purpose” is to radiate an aura of love, we may say things like “the aura is so healing because others’ attention is very validating.” (i’m using this as an example - don’t play lawyer games with it and make this the focal point of your whole argument)
You’re right, it does clearly say you can use Love Bomb’s “one purpose” for any purpose. I can also use a dildo for any purpose. A dildo is just silicone, technically. But based on the marketing, and the preconceived notions about Dildos that I have given the rest of their description, and based on the preconceived notions that I have about sex at large, I only imagine a narrow set of things that a dildo can be used for, even if you tell me I can use it for anything, because I’ve been imprinted/biased as to what dildos are used for. I think of sexual things more than I think about using them as a paperweight to give to my grandma.
With Love Bomb, i’ve been biased to think that the aura is clearly outwards facing, based on the sales copy, and designed to persuade others to feel certain emotions relating to you, so I assume that it’s that aura that can be used for many purposes, not the title itself.
It “clearly” says that since it’s almost completely aura based, you shouldn’t use it and expect results unless you’ve done the inner work, and that love bomb, as an aside, can do light healing but really shouldn’t be considered a full healing title, use regeneration etc. for that. So… while you’re saying it can “clearly” be used for any purpose, you’re also “clearly” saying it’s not good to be used as a primary healing tool, therefore, there’s a direct contradiction where it can and can’t be used for “any” purpose simultaneously.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but I have never seen someone post so much on the presentation or information of the sales pages. What’s the underlying thoughts behind this? You mentioned losing trust in your first post. Are you worried you’ve possibly been running the wrong stuff or that it won’t align with your goals? Honest opinion here it seems like a bit of recon mixed with a legitimate concern.
Love Bomb: Think of a light bulb. It has internal components which power it up. But it projects light externally. I think Love Bomb projects through the internal love/wisdom/positivity you feel for yourself. Thus it is powered internally and projects/radiates externally. It is not a healing sub. It is aural in nature, just like it’s progenitor Libertine. It has internal and external components.
LBFH: More of healing sub. Uses love to heal wounds and teaches you how to love yourself. Once you feel healing power of love, it is natural to want to connect and spread that healing power. Thus, again, an internal component of healing and an external component of wanting to spread love to help and heal others.
So, I think trying to compartmentalize internal and external misses the boat as both have internal and external aspects to them.
I think @ouroboros has made his point and also gotten a response.
I’m concerned about the potential of the more ranty elements of this discussion to derail other more important things. Saint has already stated that the sales copy for Love Bomb will be updated. So if the sales descriptions for Love Bomb and LBFH are really burning a hole in your soul maybe just sit on it for a couple of days and post more on it later?
It strikes me as a little recon-fueled. The points and questions are valid. That’s not the part that I mean. It’s how long it is, I think. (At the same time, this post that I’m typing right now is coming from a recon-space, so… Uhh…there you go.)
I don’t mind if this thread gets closed the last thing I want here is a big sha-bang but I don’t think anyone cares enough to get deep into it, lol.
Agreed it’s hella long, I’d say the first post was normal; the second post is extra long because if there was a request for all the contradictions etc I’m happy to get into it but I’m gonna do some from a place of being kind of vindictive from the all caps “CLEARLY” used 100 times.
Like I said I’m not here to politick it. Politicking is making the same point 100x. If this helps the future sales pages, fantastic, it was effort well spent, if not, it’s not my company it doesn’t effect me
I’ll still make the point that both posts put together on this are still 100’s of pages shorter than all the other convo put together on this combined. I’m just trying to be the first person to actually put thought into it with a decent summary and some clear examples without bringing up DoMINancE.
Guys, we aren’t doing this. This discussion will be tabled until after the event. @Fire concurs with this. I promise that will come back and revisit these thoughts afterward with a less stressed mind.
I was going to move on, but I have to make a few things clear:
Please refrain from every framing a situation in which you are “enlightening” me on what I can and cannot do. This thread was brought to my attention due to its potential disruptive nature, meaning I was forced to stop and address this. Either way, if I choose to answer it, a potentially disruptive post on my own forum, I will do so.
Watch the tone, and considering we’ve owned this market through the use of feedback, I can assure that we know all of the nuances and do not any advice on this topic.
You did not write this as a “one off” case, you very much emphasized this in a public, disruptive manner.
I am not confused. I understand this industry far more than most people, hence our success. The fact of the matter remains that the copy is quite clear about the differences. You guys are confused about the deeper use cases of the two titles. What the titles do, however, are extremely clear. How you can use them, isn’t clear – which isn’t quite our issue, since part of the process in using subliminal audio is intuition. If you cannot intuit certain things, you simply don’t need to run them. And that is the culture that we are cultivating here at Subliminal Club.
If you cannot understand the differences from those two copies, there is no way in hell that I would ever release @Fire’s masterpiece, which by far would the most advanced subliminal product not only ever made right now, but possibly for some time to come. Now why would I unleash such a thing when something as simple as the difference between Love Bomb and LBFH isn’t understood?
Dude, from the damn sales page:
A Love Bomb For Humanity attempts to achieve one mission: To instill an incredible sense of self-love within every fiber of your being, and then energetically radiate that love out to everyone you encounter. It will transform you into a reservoir of positivity, hope and universal love — the kind that respects everyone’s intrinsic high value as a unique being — which you can then choose to share with others simply by being around them. Love Bomb For Humanity’s potent aura also encourages those affected by it — if they consent — to spread love and positivity wherever they go.
The most dense part of the sales page, talks SOLELY about the energetic aura that serves others. I am so confused as why anyone would claim that they didn’t know.
… because the aura for LBFH is projected outward to spread. Love Bomb’s short copy says that you can do whatever you want with it, because it stays with you. Our products are extremely advanced and we have intention of having to handhold so much that a person can’t stand on their own. This should be intuited or deduced, which is the type of customer we are looking for.
You guys ask for more advanced titles, wonder why we nerf things, and here’s why. How could we ever release something that require high level, abstract thought if an individual cannot parse the simple differences between these two things? It’s simply not going to happen.
Why would aura not be outwards facing? What we’re trying to explain to you and what the sales copy clearly said is that the aura is outward facing for a different purpose with LBFH. You don’t really get to choose how it’s irradiated. It’s going out FOR HUMANITY. Love Bomb’s aura can be directed and guided with your stack. Like it said.
Dude, what in the holy hell are you talking about? @Fire – this thread belongs to you now, man.
