What is your foundation for WB?
My first sub was Dragon Reborn, then EWP, KB, Genesis, Emperor and Mind’s Eye. Now I’m back to wb and got so many goodies, I think foundation is the key!
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It’s not so much about which subs you’ve run but what kind of work you’ve done—how you’ve changed, how you’ve evolved.
Dragon Reborn (which I ran for a year) serves as a foundational sub to “fix” and strengthen your psychological makeup. If you’re twisted or broken, there’s no better sub to facilitate deeper self-development.
Primal (which I ran for six months) makes you socially adept, turning bedding women into something as natural as breathing.
SSX (which I ran for three months) helps you master the art. It’s the only title I’d need to run a bit longer to unlock everything WB was designed for—aside from achieving financial independence on Emp. Ex., that is.
Of course, it’s not about time frames but the real work you’ve put in with the subs of your choosing.
That said, even without solid foundations, you can still grow with any sub—provided you know how to work with it and put in the effort. However, running an advanced sub too soon can actually slow you down, as some offer a smoother transition to your “destination point.”
The punchline—something many people tend to forget or have never even heard of—is this:
You can lie to everyone around you—your mom, God, and even yourself—but not to Zero Point. Growth is organic and requires real effort.
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@anon78457040 really nailed it by suggesting Primal and SSX as foundational titles for WB.
Personally, I grew a bit through Primal (1 cycle). At one point, I felt it was time to move on to Primal Seduction (PS) — but PS took longer to kick in.
It took around two weeks before I started noticing results, and the process felt slower overall.
In hindsight, I think going back to simpler, fast-acting titles like Primal might be a good idea.
They deliver results quickly and can create a base.
Right now, I feel kind of stuck.
Not much has shifted for me with WB over the past two cycles.
Even though I go out, approach, and talk to women — something still feels off.
The conversations don’t really click afterward, and it’s just… not there yet.
At this point, I’m not even trying to “make” WB work anymore.
I just run it alongside DRR and a custom stack with Mogul:Genesis + PS.
My sense is that WB works subtly, behind the scenes.
It’s a long script that seems to require more from the user — like you’re trying not just shifting, you’re trying to seducing reality itself.
Don’t get me wrong — I still get some* IOIs, I have some options.
But it’s not quite “it” yet.
The changes are subtle.
I think, I feel like I’m becoming slightly more attractive every month — it’s slow growth.
And maybe that’s the point. You don’t build a mega machine in a week.
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Ultimately, it comes down to the user. If you didn’t receive any recon from running full loops of WB, it’s subjective. Different minds, bodies, and personal goals lead to varied outcomes.
I’ve noticed that when I use WB solo, I gain no recon; recon only appears when I start stacking. This is why I now consider Genesis as the only stack worth using. It’s light and broad, complementing WB perfectly, allowing for little to no recon.
In summary, everyone will have a different experience with WB. Whether you get recon depends on how you use it. 
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Primal sounds so good for me right now. I need something to balance out the intensity of Khan, something to help me lighten up. Currently I’m running it with Wanted, though I think I might switch it to Primal or AoH etc. Yeah I definitely haven’t been smiling and laughing as much as before I was running Khan. Need some of that “fun” and “chill tf out” type scripting.
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My theory for your slowed progress is just that it’s a dense stack and is taking longer to process/execute. I think you’d get quicker results in the seduction realm if you ran WB alone or with another major like Primal or SSX.
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100%. Customs typically take longer to see results, which is why the recommendation is to only create a custom after you’ve used a main store title for a few months and are acclimated.
Switch to only mains for awhile, you will see the results. Works for me every time, and if I can stick to just two titles focused towards one goal, the results are very fast.
Romance/wealth, typically are two opposing goals. Ive very rarely see people achieve remarkable results with both at the same time.
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Unfortunately, I haven’t run Khan yet, so I can’t speak from experience. I’d definitely like to try it someday—maybe next year. For now, I’ve still got DDR to finish and WB is very much on my mind.
If Khan feels like too much, maybe try a break or run shorter loops? Primal is a great option too. You might even try stacking them together.
Personally, I’ve found Wanted to carry a heavy vibe—definitely not as playful or energizing as Stark, Primal, or similar titles. During my first cycle, it actually made me feel a bit closed off emotionally. It did make people chase me more, but I also felt less alive inside.
The second cycle was different—lighter—but I also saw fewer results. So, it’s hard to say.
Primal, in contrast, is a lot more fun to run.
I don’t think that’s it. Even when I used one loop of HOM while running WB, I clearly got HOM results—but not WB. That makes me think it’s more of a subconscious integration issue.
Primal Seduction actually includes SSX inside it, so I already have that covered. I’m going to wait it out—it’s a dense stack, but I’ve got the time.
Yeah, I’ve definitely noticed that. Still, I’m starting to catch glimpses of Primal Seduction and the embedded modules doing their thing.
Well—I’ll be the first, then. 
Just to clarify, WB is a store title, not a custom.
The custom I’m running is built from Genesis: Mogul + Primal Seduction, among other modules.
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I believe this is no longer the case. Older Primal Seduction was a synthesis of both Primal and S&S, like how Ascended Mogul is a synthesis of Ascension and older Mogul.
Newer Primal Seduction is different now with the introduction of reality bubbles.
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These are from July 24
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However, like @Trader said, PS is not a combination of both, even though it includes SSX. It is based on entirely different concepts (reality bubbles and sexual energy boosts).
I would still run Primal and/or SSX instead.
It all depends on how—and to what extent—you can anchor a sub in your reality to make it a true catalyst for change, propelling you to the next level.
It’s not that Primal is simpler or faster-acting than PS because of their scripting alone. It’s just more anchored in your reality and serves as a better catalyst for change, propelling you to the next level.
Running subs that are not anchored in your reality causes just that. Or this:
Running WB at a uni may sound like a brilliant idea, but go read the WB sales copy (the story to be precise) and see who John Wingliss is—certainly not a uni student.
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What do you mean more anchored in his reality ?
Wb did wonders for me in Uni, it works well where you’re surrounded by ladies and go out everyday(classes). I had sex with the hottest girl in our class after our last paper and it happened so effortlessly
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A nice example of what I’m talking about:
Thanks @Vkluff
@GoldenBird There’s a hope, mate.
It all depends on how—and to what extent—you can anchor a sub in your reality to make it a true catalyst for change, propelling you to the next level.
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I agree I might have to go back to Primal
But for now I’ll continue
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Would both stack? Primal and Wanted Black.
Yes but depending on your development, you’ll want to put some effort into switching modalities and getting used to the different styles. You’ll still get benefits even if the two styles are completely new to you in either case.
Throw in singularity and it should be a breeze with that paradox effect.
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Back when I was running Q Emperor, possibly even pre Q, and the first version of Libertine, now Primal Nights, dropped the hype was just as big as any major seduction release today. I remember using it just once and the very next day, I met a really cute girl on the train which i dated for months. She not only sat in front of me but actually started the conversation. The chemistry and attraction were so effortless it was like an instant & effortless manifestation which met my back then skill level and needs in everyway and more.
This pattern repeated itself with every major attraction sub release: Libertine, Primal Seduction, Diamond, Sex Mastery, and so on. The results would always peak in the first few weeks.
Why Is That?
This goes way deeper than placebo or tech differences.
Back then each new drop came from a smaller selection pool. There was no WB, RotNW, or Divine Diamond. For attraction your go to options were Ascended Mogul, Emperor, then PS and Libertine for aura. There was no second guessing, no stack overthinking. Just pure focus and execution.
Using both Emperor and Libertine didn’t feel like “chasing” or “attracting.” It was just everything because there was no other option to consider. Contrast that with today where people mentally compartmentalize subs. Instead of fully embodying attraction, some hesitate, thinking, “Is this enough?”
The first time effects
What happens when you use a subliminal for the first time?
- Excitement You’re pumped, fully invested and expecting results.
- Confidence You trust the process, so you naturally take action without hesitation.
- Reticular Activating System (RAS) Lock-In Your mind is tuned into success, every small detail so you see and attract more opportunities.
- Momentum The smallest result feels huge, reinforcing your belief, which makes things snowball.
It’s why the first week is often the most powerful before people start overanalyzing, min maxing, micro-looping, stacking, and trying to “optimize” their approach and the perfect this and best that!
More Options, More Doubt, Less Focus
Even though today’s tech (ZPv2+) is exponentially stronger, people aren’t running subs the same way anymore.
- Back then, if you ran Emperor, you ran it as your seduction sub. There was no questioning it.
- Today if you run Emperor, part of your mind thinks, “This is just for status, I need to stack it with RotNW or PS for attraction.”
- Back then PS was “seduction on steroids .” Now, it’s "one of many seduction choices.”
This shift in mindset has changed how people experience results not the subs themselves.
Infinitely stronger subs + weaker mindsets
Pre Q and Q recon was mostly due lacking in healing as well as punishing inaction. ZP recon is mostly due to over exposure, sub hopping, healing ( which is the idealized form of reconciliation ) and also for not taking action. However there next to no uncertainty, overthinking and lacking in vision back then compared to today.
There was no sub hopping back then because there was no subs to hop back and forth on. Ascended Mogul, then Emperor did literarily everything and continued to evolve with each upgrade! The only reason they don’t seem to do everything anymore is due to the abundance of choices we now.
Current Emperor, Stark, SB etc. have all the seduction you will ever need to break reality and live a great life doing so. Attraction subs go the extra step and aura subs pushes reality to its limits. However no amount of upgrades, healing, perfect min maxing will ever compensate for doubt, lacking in vision and confidence. If you run Emperor and believe it’s not a " seduction " sub simply because you are not using PS or WB you are severely underestimating yourself and the sub. So using WB you best believe you are literarily a hacking " dating and seduction " on an unfathomable levels. If not then you are fundamentally nerfing your results.
Key Takeaway
This is not about needing to believe for subs to work. That is not why Subclub continues to grow each year while retaining loyal and active customers who can’t get enough. it’s about the fact no matter how many upgrades, choices, or improvements come along the mind always would rather overanalyze which is nothing more than resistance disguised as strategy
I stopped posting about my seduction/romance results because i wanted to pass the torch and to improve other aspects of my life instead of continuing to reinforce my value to myself through dating and nothing else. Yet most of what i see nowadays is overthinking stacks and suggestions instead of results. Its disheartening to see so many posting about this stack and X sub and Y sub etc. when a single one of those, used properly to mere 50% efficiency, would give them 10x the results i wish they rather post about.
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Reconciliation is not as obvious as it used to be; it’s become insidious. All that sub-hopping and stack optimizing is a form of reconciliation. Another thing is sticking to the forum, reading other people’s results, and waiting for upgrades, which can also be a form of recon. Most of us are in recon without realizing it. The saddest consequence of that is what you mentioned: lack of vision and confidence, negativity, and FOMO.
The solution is here:
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