Elon is cool and all. But he got pissed at an employee for taking his WEDDING day off to be with his new wife. That isn’t endearing or positive in the slightest.
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it becomes very hard to like somebody once they reach that level of fame, you almost feel bamboozled knowing that you look up to someone you haven’t even had to encounter before, and the only indication of their publicly accepted image is the controlled media.
dont really hate them myself but dont look up to them.
if there’s anything to learn from observing stars it’s that yes we’re all flawed no matter how hard we work, no human is perfect i think
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I’m not saying worship him as a God or that he is a good person. I’m not even saying I like him or approve of his actions.
HOWEVER, He has inspiring qualities. I think our society loves to point out everyone’s faults and not look at the good points about them. People are complex. That’s why this world is so interesting.
I am saying we can use these individuals who accomplish incredible things and learn to integrate the things that we like about them and discard the rest.
Example
I aspire to be someone like Walt Disney, however I do not want to be him. He was very racist and donated money to the Nazis but I admire his ability to achieve the impossible and striving for perfection.
Steve Jobs another example.
Absolute asshole to work with. Got pushed out of his own company because he was such a pain. I even hate Apple.
But he pushed the envelope, flew a pirate flag over his building, started from nothing and inspired others to help him fulfill his vision. THAT is something to work towards.
People love to focus on the negative in the world and point out others faults without examining their own, then wonder why they are unhappy and unfulfilled.
Your reality is determined by what you focus on.
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Why not obsess about the inspiring qualities itself and less about the person who supposedly has them?
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We running Subliminals to improve our selves but talking about a man that has created a wonderful life for himself.
Lets ignore them and not waste our time debating or even talking about them.
Im not hating on them just being real.
Thank you, this is exactly what I was trying to get across.
It’s easier for me to use these people as a way to visualize the qualities I want myself to embody. I love the stories and journeys these individuals go through. Then distill their qualities that I like and incorporate that into my life.
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Ever considered focusing on your own flaws and greatnesses rather than having to use a mannequin? Clearly if we’re here to defend or attack a certain idol then we’re being led astray
Every second you use observing the fine greatness of Steve Jobs is a second you rob from thinking of your own vision
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And there is nothing wrong with that. However, I think it would be wise to keep in mind what @Yazooneh said. I have meet Elon Musk once seeing him speak 5 meters in front of me. I could not get off the notion that he seemed kinda “dumb” in big contrast to what you would expect from him. Who says he is actually the driving force behind all the cool and visionary stuff and not an unknown team or partner who works in the shadows? I am not saying, this is necessarily the case but we should keep in mind that those people often invest a big part of their time and money to craft their personal reputation and story… Most often we only know what they want us to know.
That’s why I rather obsess about the qualities I desire and less about the person who embodies them.
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Another thing about looking to flawed individuals is learning from their mistakes.
I also learn from these individuals how I don’t run my life. I aspire to become a business Mogul but not at the cost of friends and family or sacrificing my ideals.
It’s annoying when someone states oh I like what this person does, then someone who hasn’t done anything in their life is so quick to point out their faults.
People desire to be great but then tear down those that actually achieve something. They then wonder why they are constantly self sabotaging themselves unconsciously.
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@RVconsultant or @DarkPhilosopher
This topic does not appear to provide value to the forum, you can shut it down.
EDIT: If you think it does not provide value. I do not wish to add nonsense to the forum. I seem to be struggling to convey what I am trying to get across.
I welcome disagreements. It just appeared that my original point was pointless.
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Agree…please stop this negative talk.
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Disagreements like this happen in all forums. To me, this thread is valuable. Just because everyone doesn’t agree doesn’t mean it’s a worthless discussion. I’ve encountered several points of view that are interesting. I don’t disagree with anyone above. 
I think the intent of this topic is indeed not to focus on the individual but rather on the qualities they have demonstrated which are helpful. If we didn’t do that, why would we have a sub called Stark or Khan? A module called Raikov? Or compare Chosen to Picard? Fictional characters they may be, the same principle applies. We can’t deny some people bring value to the world even if they aren’t perfect. Even Ghandi was not as peace-loving as history would have you think. But people throughout history use him as a teaching example.
Personally I don’t know what to think about Musk. I know he’s an ass, especially to his personnel. I also know he goes all-in on what he believes in and that tends to pay off. I know Tesla and especially SpaceX exist because of his willingness to do so. Is he the genius behind all the tech? I have no idea, but neither was Bill Gates or Henry Ford (ask me about Ford’s buttons some time, it’s an awesome story). He’s still the driving force behind it, bringing people together and (sometimes adversely so) focusing them on a single purpose.
There’s people enough with qualities that we could name and dissect together to see how we could replicate only those qualities in a good way. How about Jobs or Zuckerberg?
So let’s indeed not focus on the individual himself.
I want to see if that’s possible because this thread has potential.
That said, I have 2 notes in my usual style:
- Elon Musk really has a missed opportunity. He should have started his own perfume line.
Imagine this:
“Musk for Men, by Elon Musk. Smell like a sweaty, masculine man all day long.”
See? Golden!
- I don’t know if I should be complimented or insulted that I am not named in the list of inspiring but flawed individuals. Does that mean I’m not inspiring or not flawed but inspiring? Just saying, don’t make an enemy out of me.
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I understand your point and I agree to separate the qualities from the individuals. But as mentioned in this thread, when someone rises to a certain level it becomes hard to separate the message from the messenger.
I don’t have any specific person I can think of besides the ones already mentioned, but I think many of us here gravitate to certain programs because of what some individuals represent to them. Not necessarily idolizing them, but viewing them as somewhat of a blueprint of what’s possible.
Well if I should name one, it would be Cristiano Ronaldo. A perfect example of how raw talent with an insane work ethic and winner’s mentality can mould you into someone who can compete at the highest level consistently for almost 2 decades. Other than that he knows how to market himself really well and has multiple business ventures besides his active playing career. He is a polarizing figure, and certainly has had his fair share of scandals in the past 
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I do agree
It’s an excellent topic, @Pyro. Even am not a big fan of Elon Musk since he is quite a beta male when it comes to his romantic relationships but I can still appreciate his intelligence and work ethic.
Similarly, there are a lot of individuals throughout history who will continue to inspire us and whose flaws we have forgotten over the passage of time like the ones @DarkPhilosopher has mentioned.
We are all human anyways and we all have our faults. And as much as great man and women have their own issues, we can still learn from them.
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I think I understand what you are wanting to do with this thread.
As far as I’m concerned, keep on with this post. Some people have gotten on board.
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A current person that I have been listening about is Steve Jobs.
In the beginning of his career he was hot-headed and not a great manager. Many people know about his flaws with his family.
Steve really evolves himself as he got older. Eventually being called back to the company he founded after being pushed out 10 years earlier. He bought out Pixar and learned to listen to his workers and actually fought on their behalf against Disney. He learned how to let his workers do what they do best. He also reinvented the dying Apple to the giant it is today.
What I learned from learning about Jobs and his journey:
- Hire the right people and let then do what they do best.
- create a culture of innovation
- Do not neglect your family (this was one of the major regrets of his life)
- Don’t be an asshole, it makes your life more difficult.
- take care of your people, they will take care of you.
- empathy goes a long way.
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Oh yeah. Elon is beyond just flawed.
Every company his name is associated with, was on track to success before he joined them – he didn’t founder them, as much as he found his way into them. 
They succeeded in spite of him, and not because of him.
None of his ideas solve the problem they were supposed to.
Mars colony can never happen in our lifetimes.
Hyperloop was disproven a century ago.
And …
Tesla stock is a stupid bubble.
Let’s see … I’ll post some videos here, just for education of anyone curious.
They’ll be long though.
Then, there is this playlist, but Adam can be quite sarcastic. He’s european, so. 
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Another person that I have been learning about is Howard Schultz of Starbucks. His journey has shown how you can do well by your employees and investors at the same time and that do you can do good and still become wealthy beyond your wildest dreams.
His journey also shows how important it can be to stick to your vision and convictions even if it may be doing something the hard way. He calls his employees partners and tries not to do top down management.
During the 2008 financial collapse he stuck by his employees by fighting tooth and nail with his own board to keep the healthcare benefit when he had the perfect excuse of the great recession to drop ot saving Starbucks millions. He still closed stores to help stop the bleeding even though it was hard for him to do so.
During the great recession he fixed Starbucks not allowing the economy as an excuse.
I don’t know other things about him that I’m sure people would love to point out so they can feel superior, but there are some great takeaways from his story and the story of Starbucks.
FYI, I don’t drink coffee or go to Starbucks more than twice a year but this little journey inside the brand has been enjoyable.
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