Always getting capped at 30s with subs, anyone else?

Questions and Comments
#41

Just going straight into 15 minutes loops can easily lead to stonewalling which IMO is often worse than “normal” recon, as nothing moves at all anymore for a while.

Starting with micro loops and very slowly increasing is good and recommended.

Regarding recon: In my experience one factor a bit underdiscussed is how/if you expect recon. As with many aspects subliminal recon can give a lot of projection space for FUD. If I sit alone at home, listen to a sub and waiting for recon to hit, “recon” will hit. (probably with a good bit of autosuggestion)

To change my attitude towards recon/subs in the beginning it helped me to listen to my favourite music, watch ARCHER (my TV happy place) or enjoy a lovely choco tartelette while listening to it. Scent often helps too.

Even better’s listening to a sub and going straight into action taking. (e. g. listening to a social sub and heading straight to a party with friends.) And not thinking about the sub at all, but concentrating on the (party) action.

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#42

I never experienced stonewalling on ZP and I’ve run almost 50% what’s on the store in ZP, trying various listening patterns. Yet, we’re all unique. :blush:

What people mistake for stonewalling is reconciliation fog that clouds our results’ perception.

:snowflake:

#43

This is definitely something I haven’t considered, thank you. I’ve probably got a lot of conditioning and bad associations that could use rewiring to make the whole event of listening to the subs feel good vs preparing for battle.

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#44

Some might. For me stonewalling is different. (I had it a couple of months shortly after the introduction of ZP while “overdosing”.) I had bad recon, listened to even more subs, the recon vanished, I (relatively suddenly) had a pretty clear mind (I’ve a lot of experience with brainfog), so no recon, but also no results, no feeling of “the subconscious is working on something”, no pressure inside the mind. Nothing of the sort. It was a weird and quite distinct feeling. A bit like a mental lane closure.

So, yeah, we are all pretty unique.

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#45

Just wanted to say I appreciate everyone’s input on this. I have some challenges I face when it comes to the subs and I always have. It’s been a long process trying to figure out what personally works best for me. I absolutely get results but the balance is pretty skewed and I’m in recon land more often than just enjoying life so I’ve been looking to change that.

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#46

Like @Hoppa, who gets great results despite the fact he “feels nothing” on subs.

Reconciliation fog is even trickier than the lawyer’s game when we get classical recon.

:snowflake:

#47

Really kinda hard to compare these kinds of very personal experiences.

If I remember correctly @Hoppa listened to it according to recommendations, one sub, trusting the process. I was sub hopping, not sure what would work for me and overdosing. Really not comparable. And a gazzilion other factors (for me e. g. a very stubborn critical factor, tendencies to overthink). It was not reconciliation fog. It felt like a weird partly shutdown in internal communication for a several week/months.

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#48

I’ve had this so I know what you’re talking about. In my case I have different parts of my mind. Someone in there will pull the plug entirely if I overdo it. Then to prevent further harm essentially close down the bridge of communication.

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#49

Yes. It felt very much like an emergency stress response.

To be clear: It was harmless. After a month long washout the process normalized. Never had it again.

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#50

This right there. I am so happy that I discovered this place after they figured out how to make 15m loops work, because I certainly don’t have the logistics to listen to headphones for 10+ hours a day…

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#51

I know this might be long but thought this also maybe useful for you!

So one time I came across someone showing a study of participants where one group where bad with dealing with stress and had physical symptoms related to it. And the other group were really good at dealing with it like it really didn’t phase them so much and where physically healthy too. The interesting thing was that both groups had similar amounts of stress in their lives like same job roles for example.

Eventually once the study was complete, what they concluded was that the group who handled stress really well, viewed the response in their body and mind in an entirely different frame. And what they believed was that stress is good for you and so you can enjoy and welcome it because it’s a sign of growth in one form or another. Now, this has helped me tremendously when dealing with recon because embracing it seems to be the key!

I’m curious as to what your thoughts are on this?

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#52

If you have felt apathetic and “spineless”, it might have been reconciliation that oftentimes results in reconciliation fog. I’ve had periods of reconciliation like that before. However, it might have been a totally different experience given what you wrote.

:snowflake:

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#53

It wasn’t apathic recon. (I know exactly which one you mean. :slight_smile:) It was quite different, with more clarity and energy as the draining black hole was cut off for a while. I wouldn’t rule out a correlation with other stress aspects.

It is overall a bit difficult to discuss these mechanics. We probably all have slightly differing connotations for the terms we use here based on our personal experiences.

And to describe aspects like recon or stonewalling as clearly and detailed as possible often let them seem much bigger than they actually are. The stonewalling wasn’t that bad, more a noteworthy mechanic than an noteworthy event.

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#54

I believe this. I somewhat understood that from this old quote:

The greatest discovery of my generation is that human beings can alter their lives, by altering their attitudes of mind

I think this is the research paper you were talking about (maybe I’m wrong). Its from 2004

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#55

It’s definitely close! and love that quote, where did you find it?

#56

I read it a long time ago in some random self development book. I believe he :arrow_down:said itimage

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#57

Hmmmm seems like correlation not causation on that study. I think it’s more likely they perceived stress as good because their personal experience of it wasn’t difficult or that’s how they coped. Stress is not good for you, that’s my opinion. Challenges and activation that motivates you? Absolutely. But stress, no I think it has 0 positive benefits. It’s possible that other group knew how to self soothe better, had more stable childhoods, nervous system less wired for sensitivity, etc. Way too many factors to draw the conclusion that stress is good or the physical repurcussions of it can be altered by thinking differently.

I have no doubt the other group felt better physically and mentally, but it wasn’t anything they specifically did. This isn’t much different than people claiming they don’t fall into depression because they’re strong. Meanwhile their baseline made them more resilient to it, they aren’t exercising more willpower or insightfulness. They just got the luck of the draw of a good developmental foundation that essentially boosts their natural immunity to it.

#58

Id just like to add that 30s alone of using lots has given results,had people calling me handsome and i could look in the mirror and tell that i looked better but couldnt tell what changed and when i over exposed it reversed id look in the mirror and look ugly again,worry more about the results compounding over time,i plan on doing it like this until the anti recon scripting gets updated to spartan and lots so i can safely increase my exposure without worrying about ruining anything