The funny thing too when you take the comparison further is, neither one of them can save the world without dying on their own, but when they join hands and listen to bad 80’s music… 
BOOM!
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Hahaha! Excellent point 
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The truth of the matter is that we don’t fit any stereotype of a “Deadpool” or “Wolverine.” And again, Fire vs. Saint is a philosophical “competition” reflecting the battle that everyone has between their ambition and inner life. We will continue to reiterate this, because Subliminal Club is not about us, it’s about creating products that can help people from all walks of life find THEIR Zero Point. We do not define the Zero Point, because it is not about us.
We will never present ourselves as anyone’s leader, or “guru.” To be honest, I have a severe issue with the concept of “gurus” in the modern sense, because I can’t stand any individual claiming to know the truth and the absolute truth. I have such a rebellious streak that I often rebel against myself if I’m being too hard or demanding on myself internally (to get a task done or something).
It’s one of the reasons why we eschew becoming “influencers,” or writing self-help books and the such. Our business philosophy is and always will be – serve the customer in the best way that they can, so that they become their own gurus.
But, I do want to touch on the topic of the perception of spirituality in regards to our titles. There’s a misconception that spirituality equates to weakness, and we find that some people avoid those titles completely because they are worried about being influenced toward the New Age idea of overbearing “light and love” who can’t stand up for what they believe in.
That is not our way. For us, the process of spirituality entails becoming more resilient, as a person must be brave and strong to turn away from the thralldom of society and its pitfalls, and our titles fully express that idea. Neither @Fire or myself are running around with bleeding hearts allowing ourselves to be run over or dominated by people. We consider ourselves warriors. We train Qigong, we train martial arts, we spend most of our day in deep self-reflection, monitoring our thoughts and emotions to transmute / redirect them to something of a more refined nature.
You’ve all seen the poll – it keeps coming back to a 50 / 50 split, or close to it. And since we’ve been kinda stereotyped, with @Fire creating the alpha titles, with me focusing on spiritual titles, we understand what the answers to the polls are telling us: there’s an equal amount of spiritual individuals here (who are most likely, a bit silent about it because they understand what we’re trying to achieve in regards to not allowing the forum to become another place for the Light-warriors of the Galactic Federation, IYKYK) as there are those who are pursuing material wealth.
And I’m not trying to be funny, just stating a fact: the majority of those individuals are the ones refusing to focus on us as individuals and focuses more on the effects of the products. They seem to very much understand that true power comes 100% from within and not the titles, not the producers, not the community, but themselves.
So, when we create spiritually themed titles, the goal is to help the user find themselves. Their true self, who is longing to express itself in their day to day lives. This does NOT equate to weakness – mentally, physically or spiritually, nor do our titles remotely push this idea.
RoM, RoS, RoD (for example) are all about exploring your inner life. And if within your journey through this inner life, you find that the glamours of the world no longer pique your interest, then in my opinion, it does not make you weak.
RoM, for example, is very much written to help you discover the inner workings of your own mind, to help you control your own thoughts, to understand the why’s and the how’s of why you think the way you think. Those who have actually used it can attest that the outcome is usually an inner resilience that cannot be defined in words or expressed easily. It’s just something that is.
And being very honest – whenever we see someone giving us too much praise or focus, the first thing we both think is: “Okay, what does this person REALLY want?” Fame is fleeting. Praise is fleeting. As soon as we no longer fit whatever ideal they’re projecting, they will completely pull a 360 and turn against us, and that is simply how society deals with those who they exalt.
And so, in the conversation for Fire vs. Saint, please continue to focus on what products you want to see. Give ideas, fan the flames of competition by posting your experiences. That is what will truly elevate this season to high levels. WIthout that, we might as well change Season 3 to something else which will help us create better products.
The product is the focus. The customer experiences are the focus. And it will remain that way.
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I am one for the ideals of “Fire” to get to “Saint”. I used to be someone that would try to use spirituality to achieve material gains and found that only led to confusion and frustration.
Once I embraced the material leading to the supernatural did my life take off.
Perfect example was Divine Diamond vs Primal Nights.
Divine Diamond provided benefits, but ultimately ZP was very clear it wasn’t for me.
Primal Nights on the other hand did exactly what it said in the copy it turned sex into something spiritual through pure carnality.
What Primal Nights did is change who I was energetically to the point I became an individual who went from avoiding Khan to someone who is on stage 3 of it and earned every step of the way.
My feeling on subs went from I’m using them to fix myself to this is the challenge I am choosing to tackle in my life.
Subs to me are now a synergy of quests I take, advisors I consult with, and the weapons I wield when interacting with my chosen challenges.
Adding some Greek Fire to the flames.
(Wow the copy wasn’t kidding on the take off point of Khan ST 3)
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This is an interesting result. What other effects did PN have on you, apart from the bedroom part?
Couple ideas for reimagenings. (going for edge & dualisms)
Renaissance Man could work well like RM: Vibes Stage 4 but for any kind of art.
RM: Ultimate Artist could be its opposite: With the monk mode from Emperor Black, Flow Factor from RM: Vibes, no social or fame scripting, Vortexdive Crucible and obsessions and perfectionism of the artist not “healed” but used for art.
Primal: Iron Throne could be interesting for sexual dominance, BDSM, etc.
For Beyond Limitless a driving curiosity, an urge to play (homo ludens) to learn and discover and developing the ability of un-learning (disregard all your current assumptions & axioms and think concepts through again from the beginning without following your bias) could be interesting aspects.
True Social would IMO make sense to be very light. (Long processing and recon would be counterproductive), Primal could lend its social genius maybe combined Approachability Aura and elements of Love Bomb. Mirroring and empathy would be good. Not sure about celebrity and fame scripting. TS should IMO also work if you just want smooth sailing.
Some subs (like e. g. S:AW and LotS) are IMO pretty complete and have great concepts. Not sure besides latest tech more additions would help.
Has there ever been a Dragon Reborn Black been discussed?
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Well, I’ve run these spiritual subs a lot over the last few years, more than most, and I’ve never noticed any imposition of beliefs outside of my own, and I certainly haven’t shifted toward this “light and love” thing.
I’m a deeply spiritual guy, but I’m not religious in the standard sense, and I’m not at all one of these new age/5D/light warrior/starseed/etc people. My spirituality is primal and animistic, as comfortable with the “destructive” forces (or whatever label you want to use) as it is with the “constructive”, seeing both as necessary for this existence and the cycles of creation.
Running these titles hasn’t changed that at all, they’ve just helped me to explore my spiritual beliefs and develop and deepen my practices.
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Yes, even with a title that’s focused on love like LBFH, I’ve never been overwhelmed by the love. If anything, I have full control over the love and how I express it.
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It’s more of the benefits of having a fullfling sex life with your wife. Better general connection, better communication, less stress, stronger trust, more playful relationship in and out of the bedroom.
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What I’m going to say now is extremely subjective and it’s based on my pretty intense recent experiences on ZP yet now I can “see clearly” that the whole process is not as much about reconciling the “old you” (your beliefs, patterns, subconscious structures) with what the scripting is attempting to change, as it is about unifying those subconscious structures/patterns towards what the scripting makes you focused on so that they can work in unison. The only real recon I’ve been experiencing recently was related to those elements in my mind that make the unification of those subconscious structures/patterns harder (those elements I’m talking about are “interrupters”). It feels as if only the enemies (the “interrupters”) of the Union were subjected to reconciliation.
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Concur i hope you dont mind me nick naming @Lion as Guru. He is a great guy who is so knowlegeable of SC products i call him Guru.
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It’s fine.
Am not too knowledgable. I just like helping others out with the little I know 
.
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This is the moment where I realize that both Fire and Saint are massive Final Fantasy nerds.
And I frikking love it.
Bring it, boys!
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Final fantasy 6 is the best
Change my mind
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Maybe they should change the “motto” from “Become Legendary” to “Become Your Final Fantasy”. 
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Ready for Blitzball ZP when 60 years from now it becomes an actual sport
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6 and 10 together and we can shake on it 
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8 here. That Balamb garden music? Takes me back man.
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7 here. The feeling during the first/intro mission, and when you run into the first boss.
Sweet, sweet childhood memories.
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Same.
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